AQ's ulterior motives

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Unbeknown, Dec 3, 2014.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    so far no evidence has been furnished by Zia ul Mustafa Sab or his mureeds on just how Allama Qibla Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi Sab or his magnificent book Irfan-e-Mazhab o Maslak are sulah kulli.

    i'm copying my other post from another thread here too:

    if these people (and that includes Muhaddith-e-Kabeer) can't provide evidence for labeling other Sunnis as "sulah kulli" then the fact of the matter is that they are guilty of

    1- the zulm of laying a buhtan against Sunni brethren
    2- fitnah-mongering and cheap, dirty politics among Sunnis, and
    3- weakening us in front of the enemies of the Ahlus Sunnah like wahabis, deobandis, shias etc due to their fitnah-mongering

    they should do tawbah in front of Allah and also publicly apologize to those whose rights they have transgressed!

    of all people, a scholar should know that to make a claim, he needs to provide evidence for it!

    it is utterly disgusting to make a claim and then tell the awam to go find the evidence themselves or not provide any evidence with the attitude 'whoever wants evidence, can come to me'!

    these are the days of Muharram and we should remember the ways of our beloved Imam Hussein 3alaihis salam that people who have the truth on their side have nothing to fear!

    i'm sorry but there's simply no politically correct way to say this, and again, i hope the mods won't delete my post because of any pressures. if there's one thing we need to learn from Ala Hazrat, it's his propensity to stand with haqq no matter what.

    as usual, the wait for the mystery evidence proving Irfan-e-Mazhab o Maslak to be a sulah kulli book or Allama Qibla Yaseen Akhtar Misbahi Sab being a sulah-kulli, continues...

    ----

    forgot another link - http://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/embed_code/33998836#
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    sure, that' something i can and maybe will pursue.

    but i'm just baffled at what this mystery evidence is against Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar or his book, regarding being sulah kulli - that is not visible openly.

    is it one of those things similar to how only nazim understands the proofs and evidences for george w. bush and tony blair being awliyaa?

    if so, he and his mureeds should state openly that 'yes we will call Yaseen Akhtar and his book as sulah kullis, and you people simply cannot see or understand the evidences for it, they are sulah kullis just because we say so', and that's the end of it.

    otherwise Mawlana Zia ul Mustafa should have furnished the evidences for Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar or his book being sulah kulli ALONG with his accusations - before someone even asked for them.
     
  3. Taalib-e-Ilm

    Taalib-e-Ilm Well-Known Member

    No one stopped you from getting hazrats number and contacting him yourself.
     
  4. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    update: in a private conversation with me, brother Taalib-e-Ilm has backed off from his offer to contact Mawlana Zia ul Mustafa to get answers on how Irfan-e-Mazhab o Maslak is book not compliant with Sunniyat or how Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar is not Sunni or hurts Sunniyat.

    if other people have evidence from their own research or their shuyukh's research on how Irfan-e-Mazhab is a book promoting sulah kulliyat or on how Mawlana Yaseen Akhtar is not a Sunni or hurts Sunniyat, then please post it forward here.
     
  5. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    I have read about this event before where Taajush Sharia' was arrested in Makkah and how they explained that we are Ahlus sunnah and that Imam Ahmed Raza didn't create a new madhab and bareilwis are not a new sect.
    Maslak e Ala Hazrat is the way of Ahlus sunnah there is no separation between the two.
    This has always been the understanding from what I am aware of.
     
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    the questions of IITT are fair. and i believe mawlana yasin akhtar has attempted to answer them in his book.

    please try to look at the issue objectively and discuss thus.

    Allah ta'ala is the Absolute Helper.
     
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    sorry.

    as mentioned earlier - this is cited from "hayat e tajush shariah" and i have not verified the citation.
     

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  8. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    it is okay and relevant.
     
  9. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Sorry this should have been posted in a new thread.
    Mods can you do this please.
     
  10. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    Where's the citation? Sorry if I missed it?
    But inviting and sharing stages with deviants and murtads is my main concern.
    What does Islam say about that?
    And what does Ala Hazrat and the other great akaabireen of the Ahlus Sunnah say about such behaviour?
    Is this type of behaviour encouraged by the Ahlus Sunnah?
    Is it within the frame work and teachings of the Ahlus Sunnah?
    Does hobnobbing with heretics bring any advantages to the Ahlus Sunnah?
    Is there any need to hobnob with them?
    As disclaimers are the trend now:
    I haven't asked these questions to incite an Internet forum war.
     
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    let me clarify a little more - my main interest is in the description of "maslak e alahazrat" as cited below. mawlana yasin sahib has cited mawlana mufti akhtar raza khan sahib to the same effect. i tried to find "hayat e taju'sh shariah" online, but couldn't to verify the quotes. i assume shaykh yasin has cited faithfully.

    as i said, if senior ulama attest to this definition ONCE again (they have been saying thus for years) it helps resolve a number of disputes among common people. i am sorry to say this, but whether due to confusion or misunderstanding, this is a point of contention in our places. if such a definition is agreed upon, we can silence mischief makers among us.

    please feel free to comment if there is anything wrong with mawlan yasin akhtar's definition of maslak e alahazrat and quotes by prominent ulama.

    leave the rest of the book - it can be debated, argued against, refuted. but those few passages that describe "maslak e alahazrat" with quotations from mawlana akhtar raza khan sahib and mufti azam e hind are direly needed in our time as janab aqib sahib has pointed out that not everybody is educated or has patience.

    let me refine my statements below and leave the whole book out (obviously, since it is released this month, it will take some time for someone to write a refutation); and let us agree on the definition of "maslak e alahazrat".

    certainly, as unbeknown pointed out, we ought to have husn zann; but my comment "grudges" was because of a litany of complaints in mawlana yasin's short pieces (which i have not linked as i didn't see any need for those; besides, i have reservation concerning his strong language - though he may feel justified and deem it a tit-for-tat).

    may Allah ta'ala protect the ulama of ahl al-sunnah and give them a healthy long life. and forgive us for our shortcomings and for the sake of ulama e haqq, give us tawfiq to strive in the path of ahl al-sunnah.

    wa's salam.
     
  12. IslamIsTheTruth

    IslamIsTheTruth Well-Known Member

    'The elephant in the room' which brother unbeknown pointed out was also a major issue which everyone seemed to have missed and only lent their ear to the one eyed black man example.
    People do questionable things and then start screaming when they are pulled up on it. Which is what I don't understand.
     
  13. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    or perhaps its about one particular page because if you listen to that audio further on Allamah sahib says, "us safhe ko nikal kar etc."

    I am not sure but maybe that page is not found in all editions, maybe it was planted there by some mischief makers. we can't rule out such things. but these are just my guesses - one thing I am sure about though is that there is more to this affair than meets the eye, or the ear to be precise.

    wassalaam.
     
  14. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    I think they are BOTH above the issue of PERSONAL GRUDGES: especially when I know that Muhaddith e Kabeer Allama Zia ul Mustafa Sahab has restrained himself on a lot of occasions on speaking publicly about well known figures. He is simply not the type who would slander others for cheap publicity. And he already does have a solid reputation when it comes to matters of Deen.

    Unfortunately, not every 'defender' of Maslak e Ala Hazrat is educated or patient enough.
     
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    alright. point taken. but the context and express mention of mawlana yasin sahib makes one to think like that. delete that comment of mine. [i have left it there - but consider it deleted, or that i have taken back that statement. Allah ta'ala knows best. by the same token, the caption: "fitna e kabeer" in another risalah which i didn't link, should not be deemed to be aimed at mawlana ziaul mustafa. MY POINT is to show you how it looks from the other side. AGAIN: the personal issues of both ulama are not my business; but such public exchanges hurt us sunnis.]

    ok.

    of course, i did not say that mawlana ziayu'l mustafa sahib is responsible for this.

    i am a latecomer. until a few days ago, i didn't even know what was happening anywhere. even now, my point is only about the book by mawlana yasin - the rebuttals i have seen are not impressive.

    the point is that the caption of "maslak e alahazrat" is being used by some people to excommunicate others as we have seen here on this forum too.

    personal grudges or arguments between mawlana yasin and mawlana ziau'l mustafa are none of our business. i don't bother about personal issues of deobandi mawlwis, why should i mess myself with personal disagreements of sunni ulama? i don't know who is right and i wish our ulama didn't trade insults publicly. they will argue and settle it perhaps - but the point is about the book "irfan e maslak" (first ed. - because i am still reading the 3ed) and just as your disclaimer mentions a scholar: i didn't find anything wrong with it.

    why does this book concern me? because the definitions therein are very important for us - and for awam to understand what it means by maslak e alahazrat. if we agree that the definition is acceptable, there won't be any problem. but if the 'special' meaning and the new istilah of "sulah kulli" disagrees with that definition (snips attached,) it can kill all of us, if it goes unchecked.

    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  16. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    its best to start out with disclaimers when posting in such threads, so here you are:

    disclaimer: I have met mawlana yasin akhtar sahib once at a fiqhi seminar and I was told that he is a very hard-working sunni scholar who has, through his books, helped spread the maslak of alahadhrat ('alayhirrahmah). I have even posted this impression of mine in a thread which can be looked up if anyone wishes to. I talked to two people about him and neither could confirm his having become a sulha-kulli. One scholar I talked to said that he has read the first edition of the book in question and did not find anything amiss. He said that he doesn't know why Allamah Sahib has taken exception and added that so long as matters are not crystal clear we must withhold our tongues and have husn az-zann as both are senior scholars, maybe there is something that Allamah sahib knows and I don't and for this reason I can't criticize mawlana yasin sahib without proof even if there is one of which I am not aware.


    [​IMG]

    sidi if you are ready to give brother noori the benefit of doubt I think Allamah sahib is more worthy of it and I also do not think that putting 'muhaddith e kabeer' in quotes is right. I listened to that audio and it did not occur to me that he was making snide remarks at misbahi sahib, I am sure he is above such things. it is not as obvious as you say it is.

    besides why should allamah sahib furnish disclaimers for something he did not say or he seems to have said? suppose I said something which people misconstrued, then it is up to me whether I choose to explain myself or not. it is not mandatory. Islam gives me a right to expect people to have husn-az-zann about me. now if he had said 'yasin' in place of 'yusuf' it would have been different. and as far as I know misbahi sahib's both eyes are healthy so the claim that he was referring to him becomes weak even further. maybe he has said something else somewhere else about his appearance but this does not seem to be one of those instances.

    further, are we missing the elephant in the room? he has first spoken about inviting a nadwi and a murtadd to a conference before talking about the book. can anyone confirm if such a conference did or did not take place?

    the brothers who are doing this are being irresponsible. I have always said that bringing in insults throws suspicions on one's entire argument - if there is any at all. If you know something we don't please make inform us about it in a verifiable manner before expecting us to agree with you. If you think that what you know is the truth and that it implicates misbahi sahib but you can't prove it with irrefutable proof then accept this as qadr, state what you have to in a civil manner and let the matter rest.

    How many a munafiq of ahd-e-risalat (sallallahu'alayhiwasallam) were saved from punishment in this dunya because the evidence against them was not strong? for whatever hikmah Allah The All-Knowing and His rasul (sallallahu'alayhiwasallam) did not reveal their identities to people at large, only hazrat Hudhayfah (radhiAllahuanhu) was allowed to know them.

    did hazrat hudhayfah (radhiAllahuanhu) take to task the other sahaba who were no aware and were therefore treating them as mu'mineen?

    It is not necessary that all crimes be punished in this dunya.

    Allah knows best.

    Wassalaam.
     
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    even though i had not read it until today, we have been saying the same thing; and explaining the same thing to those who ask. in fact, i have said almost word-for-word what mawlana yasin says on p7 (in the thread spawned after mention of usaydu'l haq marhum - may Allah ta'ala have mercy on him) even though i had not read this before writing so.

    ---
     

    Attached Files:

  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    oops, apparently a THIRD edition of this book is out.

    http://www.slideshare.net/fullscree...-maslak-final-3-edition-march-2014-32354226/1

    ======
    once again: please deal with it objectively; anybody is welcome to post any refutations of this book; now or in the future.

    (as this book is released only in march - disclaimer: i just chanced upon this when digging for more information on this controversy; i haven't read the third ed. yet)
     
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    of course, posting this will raise a ruckus - and i won't be surprised if clamours for ruju'u and tawbah namah and tajid e iman and tajdid e nikah are raised.

    ---
    in the spirit of fairness, these are the statements of yasin akhtar misbahi himself: (i don't know how much of this is true - it is one man's word against another; but misbahi sahib has a fair demand: if there is sharayi proof against him, let it be presented).

    disclaimer 2: i have reservations about his strong language in some articles and i have not linked them here, but frankly, he has been pelted with false accusations (according to him) and if he responds in such manner, one cannot blame him. (i have read irfan maslak, first edition and all those accusations of "sulah kulliyat" are false - if not prove it instead of emotional rants and name-calling).

    as for the "kalua kalota.." comment - it is obvious that it was a snide reference to mawlana yasin; otherwise, let "muhaddith e kabeer" frankly state that he was not talking of him at all and we will take his word. the ta'wil of some people here that it was an analogy to describe the book and because its name was an antithesis of its content, is quite feeble. who are you kidding?

    ----
    where is sharayi proof against yasin akhtar misbahi sahib?

    the reply to this is emotional blackmail: may you be cursed - may you be destroyed. you are attacking a wali...sub'HanAllah! the tarbiyat received by such people is quite admirable.

    -----
    nobody owns ahl e sunnat; i don't need a badge whether i belong to ahl e sunnat or not; and if they accuse us of NOT belonging to ahl e sunnat, let them give us a sharayi proof, if they accuse us of not being sunni.

    -----
    http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/sunnicreative/ihtesabe-shai-se-pahle-soboote-sharai-ki-zarurat-14-feb/1


    Allah ta'ala knows best.
     
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i came to know that some people are unhappy with me for 'supporting' mawlana yasin akhtar mibahi and his book "irfan e maslak".

    apparently, this book is "controversial" and fitna-gar and fitna-parwar.

    -----
    until AQ posted the link few days ago, i was unaware of it as well as the back-and-forth among sunnis going on in india these days.

    khayr. i have very high regard for our brother noori and i do not doubt his sincerity; besides, he is also a very close personal friend. in an attempt to control this discussion from getting out of hand, and upon complaints by some members, he deleted a few posts and threads - i disagree with him though. in his opinion, these are pointless discussions and do not further the cause of ahl al-sunnah anyway. again, i disagree with him.

    we cannot - or should not - be bullied by any group of murids to accommodate only their point of view.

    ----
    who am i? i am a nobody. what does my opinion matter? nothing.

    but i will say what i think is right - correct me if i am wrong but don't attempt to investigate my ancestry and dig my past or try to prove my low status or lack of knowledge: that is between myself and Allah ta'ala, may Allah ta'ala forgive us.

    ----
    what i learnt from alahazrat is to side with what you believe is haqq; even if it displeases your friends - even if it means making enemies of powerful people or turning the establishment against you.

    i have met mawlana yasin akhtar in passing; he was with a few other ulama in a book fair and someone introduced me to him and i did salam and we shook hands. that is all. i am not his murid, nor do i have any contact with him.

    ---
    having said that, i read his risalah posted by AQ and i found nothing wrong with it. i am not afraid of saying this - and i do not care who disapproves. unless i see an academic refutation and convincing proofs, i will not ignore it or throw it away just because some scholars are not happy with it. unlike brainless zombie-murids who never read a book in their lives, we read quite a lot - and it is not easy for me to agree just because someone says so.

    i read those two - 'replies' to 'irfan e maslak' and found them mostly as baseless personal attacks such as insinuating that mawlana yasin akhtar is a sell-out and he took money to write. the books are so evident in their lack of substance, that anybody will arrive at that conclusion without analysis.

    khayr, upon some more digging, i found out that an update to the book has been written: http://www.slideshare.net/sunnicreative/irfan-mazhab-wa-maslak-revised-edition

    feel free to read it. (i am reading it still - though i read the previous version in full).

    ----
    there is no need to delete this; if this book has problems, feel free to criticise - but don't request me to delete this post. if mawlana yasin akhtar is wrong, show me where and how.

    i assure you in sha'Allah: that if you show by proofs how mawlana yasin akhtar's book is against sunni aqidah i will not back out; i will post updates here. in sha'Allah.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
     
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