Asad Ali is a Perennialist Sympathiser

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Jul 13, 2023.

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  1. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    I think most of us could have been spared the details of the intimate conversations and videos and we would have been satisfied with a statement from scholars asking him to resign. But none of that happened and this is why things escalated.

    from my understanding the girl’s ig posts indicated that she approached him with the intention to get married. They spoke. Things happened and he stopped talking to her suddenly. She then found out he was married (because believe it or not this not not obvious at all from his profile) and messaged Shaikh Asrar. She still wanted it to be resolved privately and only went public with it when no statement was released. In my eyes she was duped. Yes she is equally guilty in that she also continued it without letting her dad know.

    I don’t want to read the explicit messages either but there is concern for potential harm to other sisters especially if this did not come out. Since Zayd does not make it overtly public and his fangirl base being significant, one could argue he could file other girls too.

    i’m also not condoning the ridiculous pdf document that is going around. That’s unnecessary.

    what infuriates most people and me are:

    1.The lack of clarity from Ulama. Had a statement gone out (without stating details), this would not have escalated like it did.

    2. the sheer arrogance and lack of accountability of Zayd who is pretending to be the victim, saying this is a sting op and still enjoying a large following on social media and saying he will be “back shortly”.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    that was the advice to asad. it is for him to decide what he wants to do with his life. i would suggest to stay away the rest of his life. but given the glamour and love of fame, it would be difficult for young men to stay away from public adulation and "likes".


    we are not sympathising with haram behaviour. what he did was wrong - it cannot be justified.

    but should he be publicly humiliated for an action/sin that was between two consenting individuals and does not concern others?

    you are mixing up things here. even if he was an imam with significant following, you should hide his private sins.

    however, he should be removed from his position (as an imam) and a generic statement made that: 'the imam has been found to be indulging in actions unbecoming of a muslim - hence removed. we ask Allah to forgive us and him and we hope that he will repent and amend his state.'

    instead of a public lynching.

    if your point is only to have him removed - there is no disagreement. he should be removed without delay.


    only if there is a fear of that sin hurting others.

    for example, a muslim drinks wine - it is haram. so long as it is his secret vice, we may admonish him in private but not disclose in public. however, if he drinks openly - then he is a fasiq mu'lin (open transgressor, blatant sinner) - so talking about him as, "he drinks" is not 'disclosing' the sin as the perpetrator himself does it.

    now, if this is done by an imam - al-iyadhu billah - it is the duty to publicly expose that he drinks - because here the intention is to safeguard the prayers of his followers.

    in this specific case, as he was the imam, and such things came to light - we should not publish the details; just a summary statement and immediate removal of the man from being an imam.

    HOWEVER, if the man is adamant and tries to brazen out and in other ways try to project himself as a victim and demonise the other party, then he is asking for details to be shared. still, i prefer that details be kept out of public. it is not just his honour, but our senses are also offended by looking at that.

    Allah knows best.
    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    as i understand, the woman made this public herself. and as it appears the affair was by mutual consent. so the woman should have considered her options before making it public. regardless, i do sympathise with all involved. i do not wish such embarrassment in public for anybody. private scandals should remain private - not a spectacle for the public and for them to indulge in backbiting and jeering.

    so she should not have released the lurid details. and whoever made that pdf should not have put that in it.

    highlighting the messages of only one party to incriminate him and condemn him is not fair. i am not saying that any reply by the woman should also be put in public. astaghfirullah, al-iyadhu billah. in my opinion, neither should be publicised. it was an affair between two adults (hence equally culpable) - and it is a sin in shariah, no doubt - but this should be between the parties involved and their Lord Almighty.

    if at all the woman had to make it public to warn the public at large - which is fair too - generic descriptions suffice.

    i don't understand. what i gather from the posts is: she approached him to marry him because he was an imam - and he indulged in an affair - and once she realised he was married, she felt cheated and put that private convo in public.

    is that how it happened?

    no doubt about it. that is his failing.
    it is said: "when a man is aroused, he loses two-thirds of his mind"

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah

    certainly not. if he doesn't leave himself, he should be removed.
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  4. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

  5. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    This statement has been released by the other party involved:


    People have been messaging and leaving comments on Imam Asad’s instagram page demanding answers and a requesting a clarification but instead of addressing people’s concerns he is deleting their comments and blocking them.

    And it’s worth noting that the Hasnain Rafique that is mentioned in the above is part of this group:

    This is not surprising, there was an incident in Bolton wherein another young Imam was doing similar things to Imam Asad but several young Molvis from the same city came to his defence and covered it all up.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    If he's a perennialist, his fisq is irrelevant. He can't be made imam.
    Nothing beats the murtad Imran hossein who just coolly dismissed it all saying no point talking about other people's personal sins when his own sad scandal came out!

    These people are sufficiently shameless and after some crocodile tears to pacify the public in the immediate fallout, they'll get back to their old lives.
    I don't know either, but there are enough idiot imams, specially among deviants, who engage in such behavior. They also damn care what effect it has on Islam and Muslim population. For all we know, this woman could be a feminist inspired deviant or mulhid trying to "expose" "misogyny" and mischaracterize Islam and so on.

    Only an utter jahil will ask the public to look for excuses or try to rouse public compassion for these kind of characters. It's detrimental to Islam.

    Just to be clear, what our brother Abu Hasan is saying is not the same thing as that guys chums trying to still promote him and asking people to still accept him and make excuses for him.
  7. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    I think what people are trying to say here:

    1. We don't need to get intimate details of the immorality
    2. Because he's a public figure, we just need to know that he's guilty of gross misconduct
    3. Therefore, he must no longer hold any public role
    4. If he does the sensible thing and disappears from public life, people should not go on at him
    5. He has a large following so he should unreservedly admit he did wrong and that there is no justification for his actions lest his followers think he is somewhat innocent
    6. He should disable all his social media
    Ghulam Ali, abu Hasan and Khanah like this.
  8. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    It appears that the issues are already now in the public domain and to some degree acknowledged by the transgressor himself. At this stage, what kind of 'leaving it private' can actually be done?

    Once a sin becomes public, regardless of whether it should have been or not, we have to deal with the consequences of the same. Numerous issues have to be dealt with. For example, a faasiq cannot lead the prayer in the hanafi school. Is there enough material here to suggest asad is faasiq and thus not suitable to be an imam (I don't use social media so am not fully abreast of the situation so asking a genuine question- plus what's the value of social media confessions as evidence in any case)?

    Secondly, is the rule pertaining to not disclosing the sins of others a completely hard and fast rule with no exceptions? What about reporting a crime? What about ensuring that an imam is exposed such that he cannot present himself to be unmarried in similar situations in the future? There may be potential societal harm in not exposing him, conceivably so how would that fit into it? Again, don't know the answer so happy to be educated.

    Asad's response is also indicative of his usual bluster where he cannot take responsibility for his own actions. If you have enough testosterone in your blood that you can't help but engage in illicit relationships, surely you have enough that you can hold your hands up and do the right thing once you've been caught. Step back, get off social media, reflect on yourself and find a way to atone for your previous errors.

    I have a vague recollection that nouman khan had a bit of a scandal but he seems to have moved passed it- it's not like it's impossible for asad in the future either. He just has to handle it correctly, sensibly, don't make it worse by dragging it out.
  9. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    and this is why it is all the more important to follow strict principles in shariah and not be lax and flexible in any of the matters pertaining to segregation of genders and pardah. The rules are there for a reason. And ultimately one of the wisdoms is the protection of peoples honor.

    if more people were paying attention when he was giving flawed fatwas and were more congizant about his free-mixing, which many Ulema had already warned regarding, then even the environment for such an interaction could’ve been avoided and the initial approach could’ve been nipped in the bud.

    Wallahu Alam
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  10. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    and that’s why @abu Hasan made the point about making sure not to transgress our limits in righteous anger.

    Refute on the issues that need to be refuted. Call him out on his public transgressions and deviances. No need to delve into his personal private life. And now that someone has made his private life public, deal with it to the extent that is necessary without going overboard.

    No need to release explicit details of what ensued for public consumption.

    And also a reminder, to keep in mind for the future. Ask Allahs protection from such trials. And also, don’t expose another’s private sins unless one is directly and clearly a victim and not an accessory who participated.
    Ghulam Ali, abu Hasan and Umar99 like this.
  11. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    that’s not true. A doctor cannot date their patient not because of bad pr but because a doctor is in a position of power which he or she can easily abuse.

    If you know a Muslim is a highway robber, to protect his honour will you not tell people he’s attacking people on the highway?
  12. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    the intention behind the establishment of man-made principles do not usually, necessarily stem from sincere protection of human rights but rather from safe-guarding of selfish interest and advancement of personal benefit. For example, entities (ie such as a medical board) come up with rules of conduct in order to protect individuals and entities from legal and financial exposure and or bad pr. It led not necessarily sincerely about protecting people from overall harm.

    Whereas Sharii principles derived from Divine scripture and law, account for many aspects of protection for human, physical, moral and spiritual rights. The latter of which is neglected by atheistic man-made laws. Honor of a Muslim is more sacred than the kabah. Hence why this must be accounted for.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
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  13. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    understood and noted.
    i don't know the "imam" in question, other than his perennialist sympathies mentioned in the beginning of this very thread, nor the alleged victim/sting op conductor, nor anything pertaining to this story (im not uk-based)

    my understanding, at least from this thread is that our Sunni brothers are going hard on this character/story because of his scoffing our imam and maslak and in that vein consider this episode as fair game against the person lashing out at our imam and maslak.

    some might say, no, refute his jahl re our imam and maslak only; some might say go for anything that tears him apart

    just my understanding from this thread. i may be wrong.

    Allahu a3lam

    it's an embarrassment regardless if the author presented facts or not. i'm shocked you even mentioned the words "academic rebuttal" in connection with it.

    specially if you want it to be read by neutral people of non-desi background or those not well aware of our maslak, there's a ton of things you need to explain before saying some of that stuff (even if correct)
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
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  14. HASSAN

    HASSAN Active Member

    Regarding the PDF refutation that's floating around, it was mentioned that it was glossed over by a well known scholar - could someone mention the scholar that purportedly examined this document?

    The authorship of said document appears to bear the hallmarks of either a preteen or an individual possessing rudimentary proficiency in English, akin to that of an individual with an Indopak linguistic background. Unfortunately, the document lacks the qualities of an academic rebuttal.
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  15. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    How according to you is it not the same principle? As with any job, if you commit malpractice and abuse of power and influence you will be sacked.
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  16. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    firstly don’t do qiyas upon a medical board’s man-made principles for this matter which requires sharii principles to be dealt with.

    secondly. I didn’t sympathize with the haram action. It’s clearly wrong and a problem. And neither did I say he should not be removed from his Imam position (now that it’s become public knowledge).

    My point was regarding the general principe of preserving peoples honor in the community. Ie the sister involved, her family, the imam involved, and the family of the imam involved. The first wrong action was the sister privately messaging him. What followed was a natural consequence of unrestrained nafs. And then making this public caused damage to multiple people not just those directly involved in the haram.
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  17. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    for how long have you been taking notes? This is over the top and unnecessary.
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  18. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    no one is saying he is inherently evil. Just that this is malpractice and he abused of his power. I don’t get why you lot are sympathising with this haram behaviour? If I’m a doctor and I send those kinds of messages to my patient, will the medical board not sack me for malpractice?

    if he was an average Joe sinning privately, of course we would all be hiding his sins. However he is an imam with a significant following (who is also playing the victim).

    This person is an adult with a wife. It’s not even been a year he’s been married. He knew full well what he was doing.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
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  19. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    Also a point to mention. Yes he made a mistake. But that doesn’t mean he’s inherently evil. We’re all human. And even the best of us are susceptible to our nufus given the circumstance. None of us are Masoom nor Mahfoudh.

    If he did a sin privately. He should not have been exposed like this. It’s best to cover the faults of our fellow Muslims. The girl who exposed him. Did she do so because she felt violated? Or was it because after engaging in sinful activity with him, she later found out he was married. Therefore she decided to ruin his life due to jeoulosy?

    Just some things to consider.
    She won’t be a victim in such a case.

    Also don’t be too quick to judge and criticize. Ask Allahs protection that we are never tested in such a way.
    امين في خير و لطف و عافية

    الحمد لله الذي عافنا مما ابتلاه به و فضلنا على كثير ممن خلق تفضيلا
  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i take it this pdf is only informal and written for desi Sunnis with whom the author shares a common background and preliminaries. please don't publicize it to a broader audience until you take suggestions from an experienced Sunni english writer like abu Hasan or Asrar Rashid. trust me, it will only give the author more tasks of firefighting
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