attacking Imam Bukhari and rejecting sahih hadith

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Abu Aleshba, Oct 1, 2011.

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  1. Abu Aleshba

    Abu Aleshba Active Member

    The thread still exists I think. The site itself is inaccessible at the moment (seems to happen on saturdays for some reason).

    I accessed the cached version of the thread via google.
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    looks like tahir riaz or his friends have removed the zindiq thread "bukhari can make my blood pressure shoot"?

    some links are not working.

    deleting the thread will not wipe away the sin; tahir and his ignorant friends who defended him will have to repent in public.

    secondly, it only proves that they are incapable of translating the commentary of even ONE hadith from fat'h al-bari; but they have the temerity to question imam bukhari.

    the least pirs should do is teach their murids some shame. but when pirs themselves lack this, how can they teach this to their blind and ignorant followers?
  3. sunnimuslim

    sunnimuslim Active Member

    Yanabi or people are ignorant gumrah people. Dont visit this website and ban this from sunniforums....
  4. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    I am sorry brother. Our religion is not put in question by these types of questions. Please post the objection to the hadith which I copied and pasted from that forum. I want to know what are the objections to that hadith.

    Tahir Riaz did not pose a question. He made a sarcasm. This is what he remarked

    Please tell me , how does the hadith which I have posted portarys our prophet sal allahu alayhi wa sallam in negative light.

    "Ask the people of knowledge if you know not"{ Al Quran, Translation]

    And Tahir called that hadith as "outright lie". So all the scholars from 254 AH uptil now 1432 AH, have not found that hadith to be a lie, but Tahir has the ability to say that. And that too , when fath al bari , umdat al qari and other shuruh are online. Did you bother to read those ? If not, please do it. If yes, please tell what is your objection on those explanations.
  5. muslim 1st Sunni 2nd

    muslim 1st Sunni 2nd Active Member

    You guys have missed the point totally ...

    These questions are exactly the ones that are posed by people who oppose Islam. We need to provide an explanation to these people otherwise our religion is put into question. That is why Tahir Riaz is posing the very valid questions, ehat should the repsonse be?

    You as a Muslim may find it an invalid question but to outsiders they are finding passages within the most authentic book after the Quran which portray our beloved Prophet in a negative light. If someone came up to me I wouldn't be able to provide an adequate response. We need to explain the passages or disregard them.

    Up until now no one on either forum has come up with a good explanation and reasoning behind the stated hadiths.

    Also, rather than bad-mouth someone behind their back why not provide an academic response to the face? if you are truly sincere you have nothing to be afraid of. (some people here bad-mouth Tahir and certain scholars but on the website he maintains adopt a totally different attitude. why the hypocrisy? either express the same reasoning and sentiments towards individuals on both forums or stick to the one forum you feel comfortable with).
  6. another brief bit of advice:
    your attempt at hadith criticism using 'logic' smacks of the kind of thing which Orientalists have been doing for centuries--and at least since Joseph Schacht and Goldziher--which is to try and remove the importance of hadith from the minds of Muslims by using such analytic methods. Just because Bukhari was 250 years later doesn't mean Muslims had not preserved hadith sharif in the previous 250 years! And the percentages you calculate --if accurate--show the scrupulousness of people like Imam Bukhari and how careful he was in only recording accurate hadiths and undermines your point.

    Please let us leave hadith scholarship to the experts of hadith and be happy to be just their followers!
  7. If you put all of the hadiths about marriage together you will see that it is okay to marry a widow and also a maiden. Where is the problem?

    "A little learning is a dangerous thing;
    Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."

    Allah and His Messenger know best.
  8. This shows the ignorance of our brother Tahir in logic: nowhere does this hadith e paak imply that it is wrong to marry a widow. Our Infallible Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم: also married Hazrat Aisha Siddiqa at the age of 6 and Our Mother Lady Aisha went to the house of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم at age 9 and was also a maiden (i.e. pure and untouched by any man) at the time.* Our Prophet had multiple other marriages too and all of them were to different women and in all of these marriages was wisdom and perfection. I therefore do not see where this hadith shows 'disrespect' as Our Master صلى الله عليه وسلم and Leigelord himself married a maiden* thereby setting another perfect example for us, his fortunate followers.

    Unless of course Tahir sahib is judging the actions of Huzoor alayhisalatuwasalaam as reported by Imam Bukhari by the currently fashionable "standards" of the West? I hope for the sake of his imaan he is not.
    It is our morals which are to be judged by the actions of the Messenger and not, naudhubillah, the actions of Our Master by the moral standards of today (or any other time). It is because everything He said and did was perfect and, another point, if we were to begin to reject hadith based on what is considered acceptable in today's societies then we will end up denying many aspects of the Sira. (e.g. will you deny our Prophet married a six year old girl? Will you deny our Prophet married the ex-wife of his adopted son Hazrat Zayd ibn Harith (Sayyida Zaynab?) That He صلى الله عليه وسلم had a child from Hazrat Mariya Qibtiya (Mary the Copt--who was a gift given to the Prophet i.e. a concubine)? All these actions will be criticised (nauzubillah) by orientalists and are recorded in sound hadiths so what shall we do--reject them too?!

    No sir, we Sunnis at least, are proud of our Hadith Traditions as recorded and preserved for 1400 years and don't need any revisionists/orientalists/modernists or any other -ists to tell us what is acceptable or not. Especially when it concerns the actions of Our Master, the Perfect One, صلى الله عليه وسلم

    "Voh kamal husn e Huzoor hai ke gamaan e naqs jahaaN nahin."

    * linguistic note: I think that the, now, slightly archaic word 'maiden'--one of whose original meanings was a virgin--is much more polite than using the word 'virgin' as, unfortunately, in the majority of the English speaking world the word 'virgin' has now become almost pejorative.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  9. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Please let me know how the ahadith portray a negative image of our prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam)

    Here, I am posting the hadith which Mr Tahir Riaz Posted

    Originally Posted by Mr Tahir Riaz

    Mr Tahir Riaz comments

    Now please tell me here , in this thread how does this hadith portray our prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) in negative image.

    You said the questions must be answered. So kindly let me know how does this hadith portray our prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) in negative image and insha Allah you will get the answer.

    Please note, the motive should be to understand the meaning of the hadith and not to prove that Imam Bukhari (Rh) did not have morality.
  10. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    Shia sect is becoming more active on internet.
  11. sunnistudent

    sunnistudent Veteran

    I finally had a look at that thread on Tahir Riaz's forum.Tahir has posted English translation of ahadith from Bukhari and Muslim. As per his understanding these narrations show disrespect to our prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) . But Tahir is not alone in raising eyebrows on these ahadith.

    Try this simple step and you will come to know many things about Tahir.

    1) Visit any Anti Islamic forum , forums run my Orientalists, Jews and answering-Islam people, they too have the same set of attack on the hadith literature.

    2)Visit any shia forum and there motive is to prove that hadith in Bukhari and Muslims are not only 'wrong" but also out of " morality".

    3) On all the anti Islamic forum , Sayyedina Abu Hurarira Rd has been attacked. Why? Because he has narrated a vast number of narrations. Proving him wrong will help Jews, Christians and Shias to prove that ahadith are wrong, so no need to accept it.


    Young and new Muslim brothers might start doubting on hadith. They will stop showing love and respect to Sunnah. They will soon stop showing love to prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) and this way the enemies of Islam will succeed.

    (1) I have confirmed report that enemies of Islam are spending money on " Quran Only" group. These people are non muslims claiming to follow Quran only.

    (2) None of the hadith posted by Tahir is 'something new". These objections have been answered by so many scholars in past and in so many ways. Scholars have even answered those questions which Tahir would not have thought off.[ Hint: Read books written by authentic scholars]

    (3) In one of this posts Tahir says:

    This shows Tahir has not read Noor al Idah , the rule of Tatbiq. Any one who has read that knows how to reconcile between two Quranic verses( apparently contradicting) ,or two contradicting hadith or a Quranic Verse with a Mutawatir Hadith.

    Tahir should also think on these issues

    1) Prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) is mercy to all the creation, but he had slaves. Isn't is contradicting as per Tahir's standard?

    2) Prophet ( sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) married the wife of his adopted son .Isn't it something which the non muslims still object to?

    Note: Please make dua for Tahir that may AllaH help him to come on the path of ahlus sunnah wal jamah. ameen
  12. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    well, this is not an issue, don't hunt for everything, only focus on his real aberrations.
  13. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

  14. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    Here is a new video of Pir Abdul Qadir Sahib where he talks about Imam Bukhari RA. The part that I can't understand is his last words, "Syed Ko bhi Aihtaram Karna Hoga, Ummati Ko bhi Aihtaram Karna Hoga". Are syeds not part of the Muslim Ummah?
  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    oh, we are much more smarter than you can imagine. we laid bare your ignorance and unless you translate the commentary of the hadith from fat'H al Bari, your 'learned' peers (whether OE as in english or paqs as in urdu) will carry the dunce cap.

    you still have some time to take off pir abdu'l qadir's videos off the net. i am just suggesting that you may come to regret them. i am sure, the 'zubdah' is also around somewhere.

    and tell the senile old man that death is closer than he thinks - will he face his Lord as a man who reviled awliya Allah? and those people who hang around him with beards - who are supposed to be scholars. nisar baig and others: when you die and die you will - ask yourselves what you will be taking with you.

    he can repent and recant all that he said and we shall respect him as a sayyid and an elder muslim. otherwise, even sir syed ahmed khan claims descent from imam Husayn.
  16. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I did. See the previous page, post number 14.

    That idiot's problem is not the hadith per se, but rather the disease he suffers from.

    I even gave a link to what meta-ethics & moral relativism is all about. This time not embedded

    Google the topics and read more on it, since you guys anyways believe that google and youtube are the keys to the pearls of wisdom.

    Despite that, dear brother Abu Hasan, even bothered to tackle the hadith question, when that is not even the real issue at hand. Needless to say, they would have gotten their knickers in a knot at his reply/request.

    Because the questioner character assassins Imam Bukhari instead of posing a question. People who have genuine questions do not pass pre-emptive judgments.


    As for those sleazebags on the rafidi springer show who think they have become overnight awliyaa, now they're trying to play childishly smart. The official story now is that the dumbo apparently only had a problem with the English translation of the hadith:

    And yes, the concept of irony is really lost on these sorry pendus.

    They can't see the amount of time they themselves spent slandering the elders of the ummah. Despite their arrogant nonsense in the face of Islamic learning and elders, they are not the keyboard warriors, no sirree! And we're the ones so easily led on! One might as well ask them, "Why are you responding to our response then?"

    A disgrace to the human race those closet rafidis are.
  17. ma sha' Allah at the replies of ustadh Abu Hasan. kalam fis-samim!
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i cannot decide what is worse: your sense of shame or your ignorance.

    actually, we are asking you to prove that your questions are valid. we think they are ravings of a madman on a garbage dump.

    this is an old habit of asking loaded questions.

    when will you stop being so stupid? why is pir abdu'l qadir so ignorant? why is yanafi forum filled with ignoramuses? so have you learnt to ask intelligent questions?

    first prove that these hadith are 'negative image'. just because some illiterate individual in this age of ignorance belches out nonsense, we are not obliged to reply. prove it by kalam al-arab and various illustrations that you have properly understood it.

    secondly, i take it that you acknowledge that you are unable to translate or even read ibn Hajar's commentary. so i don't even want to talk to you. if you want an answer read that book and come back if you have not understood any part from it. and this is the answer to all the deadbeats. we won't waste our time with illiterates who cannot even read fat'H al-Bari.

    regardless, anybody who cannot prove that they can read fat'Hu'l Bari (and the proof is to translate the commentary of that hadith which tahir has so mercilessly assailed) are not worthy of speaking on the subject.

    either you post a full commentary of the hadith in question from fat'H al-Bari; or if you cannot do it, the way out is, declare it on your forum that you are unable to translate the commentary of the hadith and we will explain it to you inShaAllah.

    very simple. no?

    in HayadaaroN pe Hayrat hoti hai.

    true. tahir riaz who has spent 16 years* traveling thousands of miles, praying day and night, doing nothing but looking into hadith - sometimes waking up ten ten times in the night to check the hadith narrations; sometimes neglecting to eat only for the sake of hadith. tahir, whose adherence to the sunnah (both as action and as hadith) is exemplary. tahir who has sat with a teacher like imam ahmed, whom even a person like waali-e-baghdad himself considers as his imam.

    when we question his profound knowledge and his immense piety, we are doing character assassination. but when tahir and his pir (or tahir's cronies) talk about imam bukhari without any restraint - "their intellectual and analytical" minds are at work.

    after all, where can imam bukhari reach the knowledge, hard work and piety of tahir and his pir?

    laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah.

    [update:] i forgot the *. i am not counting the years imam bukhari spent in the service of hadith - 16 years is only the compilation of the blessed book. and here we have people who may not have spent 16 hours of their pathetic lives reading the book. so here we give you 32 hours to complete the translation of fat'H al-Bari of that very hadith that you so snobbishly deride. if you can manage the objections on ibn Hajar in the same 32 hours, well and good. otherwise, you can take another 32 hours for the objections you may have on ibn Hajar's commentary.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  19. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    Valid questions?! You try to make his post seem rather academic. So does Imam al-Bukhari radiAllahu anhu also make your blood boil?!
  20. muslim 1st Sunni 2nd

    muslim 1st Sunni 2nd Active Member

    No one has yet provided a response to the valid questions posed.

    Namely, why were Hadiths which portrayed a negative image of our Beloved Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam recorded by Imam Bukhari?

    Rather than character assasin the poser of the question, why not tackle the question itself?

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