attacking Imam Bukhari and rejecting sahih hadith

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Abu Aleshba, Oct 1, 2011.

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  1. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

  2. subhan Allah sidi AH! May Allah reward you for defending imam bukhari :ra:
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    there is no tree in or around a certain village. villagers have to travel to the city and other places to bring fruit. by the time the fruit reaches the village, some fruit are damaged and some rotten.

    a good man, taking pity on the hardship of villagers, plants a tree - the shade is enormous and the fruit is plenty and tasty; most importantly it is fresh and wholesome. for a long time, people benefit from the tree and they even use the seed from the tree to plant it in their own gardens - and the barren land is now a land of fruit and shade.

    many generations later, a pied piper - tired and starving - passes by the village. he sits in the shade, and eats of its fruit and no one objects. the village folk who come to take the fruit sometimes ask him for the fruit and he picks for them. by and by, he becomes sated and lazy and forgets the circumstances of his arrival and begins to act as if he owns the tree. in fact, he tells the little children who play by the tree that the tree was planted by a person with evil intention, and that he can cut it off if he so wishes. street urchins without someone to take care of them believe these lies. good children with responsible elders go back and tell them; the elders laugh.

    the urchins go back and tell the pied piper that the village elders laugh at his empty boasts. the piper says that he can hack at the tree and so plays at his flute. the rats in the village that hear the tune rush to the piper and begin to gnaw at the roots of a giant tree with a humongous shade; the piper is also trying to dig it out with his bare hands as he never bothered during his stay to gather some tools.

    will he succeed?

    i assume at least, tahir or the pir (we call him paqs) should have read the entire bukhari (including pir abdu'l qadir) along with at least one commentary - ibn hajar's fat'h al-bari in arabic. else, stop criticising imam bukhari. anyone who thinks that he is capable enough to comment on imam bukhari or his integrity or his mastery of hadith, should:

    a) be able to read bukhari in arabic without diacritics and be able to correct mistakes or mention the variations (if any) from different chains. [the modern editions have plenty of them; we will hand you over a volume and ask you where the mistake in say, a set of 100 hadith. you should be able to point out the mistakes of zeyr-zabar-peysh in these defective editions. a 60% hit rate is satisfactory.]

    b) know all the ruwwat, and the jarh-ta'dil concerning them;

    c) know the aTraf

    d) know the ruwwat of the aTraf

    e) know the gharayib (if you hunt in mashariq you are out)

    f) have a chain to imam bukhari by having heard the whole of it from a shaykh (in case words are transposed in a print edition)

    g) know the ahadith and the background of the topic/section-heads chosen by imam bukhari and the ta'liqat. (along with the aTraf of the hadith thus alluded)

    h) be able to explain, al-izzi, alfiyah or talkhiS, using only the matns - even if it is a brief explanation with examples from hadith or the quran

    NO CHEATING: if you look up fat'H al-bari or umdatu'l qari or any commentary for this, you forfeit your right to reject imam bukhari. however, if you have read it previously, it is not an issue. obviously, if you claim that you too can make a car like mercedes or a ferrari, you cannot just borrow it from your rich neighbor and act as if you have built it in your garage. you do not even own it!

    in the insignificant opinion a beginner-student, this is the necessary level of knowledge that one should have before doing jarH on the imam IN SAHIH NARRATIONS; surely senior students and teachers may have even more conditions.

    take imam like ibn hajar, whose knowledge of the listed sciences was not just a claim; he wrote voluminous books on these subjects and fat'H al-bari is a living testimony of the knowledge he had and more (about fiqh and tafsir and aqayid and tasawwuf and tarikh). yet, imam ibn hajar did not even imagine himself to be anywhere near imam bukhari!

    yet these pipsqueaks, intellectual insects, who make half a dozen mistakes in a single hadith - and who cannot even pronounce common words properly claim to act as if they know better than imam bukhari. paqs claim to be a master of hadith terminology, and he cannot even properly pronounce the name of a simple book which he extols: and keeps saying kafaya..(as if this kafkafah will do kifayah for his ignorance).

    [true, we hanafis have difference in fiqh - and the choosing of hadith; but nobody questions the integrity of the imam - haasha lillah - nor the validity of the hadith in bukhari; there may be narrations whose chains are criticized but no one calls a hadith from bukhari as 'rubbish' or 'lies'.]

    i agree.

    surely, you can.

    just pick up fat'h al-bari and translate the commentary of this hadith. take this up as a challenge - collaborate, all of you. who else do you need when you can get help from the peerless scholar from walthamstow.

    all you have to do is translate the hadith that tahir doesn't like and translate the commentary and transliterate the names properly: (thus homonyms of ruwwat, you should be able to tell, for example: حجر Hujr from Hajar).

    once this is done, just post it on the internet exposing the follies of ibn hajar al-asqalani. after all, if we can find a dozen mistakes in your pir sahib's 3 minute talk, eight to ten pages of ibn Hajar may contain numerous mistakes. go ahead expose him.

    this will clearly lift the veil from these narrations. if you are not able to do it, anyone with an iota of shame would keep quiet. if you still don't want to shut up, nor translate to prove ibn Hajar wrong, and still claim to own the flying saucers of hadith scholarship, i see slim chance for recovery.

    btw, don't believe the lies of paqs when he says: 'wali e baghdad (meaning ghaws e a'azam raDiyallahu anhu) did not name the muhaddithin of the six books and said: 'why should i spoil my book with their names'.

    this is utter nonsense and bilgewater. we ask him to prove where 'wali e baghdad' said so?

    apart from the fact that there is only one book whose attribution is generally accepted to be his work, and that is futuH al-ghayb. even in this, he does not mention imam baqir, for example or zaynu'l abidin; one has to be either retarded or ignorant to claim that ghaws e a'azam dislikes imam baqir.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    on the contrary, they are looking in the mirror, not outside the window.
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ... and irony wept!
  6. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    Our beloved Prophet Álaihi afDaluşalāt wat-tasleem foretold us about this time when juhala like this napaak kachraa (he is not tahir, and he is not riaDh) will become aalim, and when such filthy people will slander the elders.
  7. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

  8. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Just don't wager a lot.

    The 12'er shias already do it. I'm not sure if closet 12'ers will also do the same or not.

    Just google the topic and you'll see plenty of 12'er articles in 'defense' of the Imam. Ironically, for all their morality against multiple divorces, they will defend mut3ah tooth and nail.
  9. for so-called followers of ala hazrat they don't follow many of his rulings vis-a-vis aqeedah especially when those views differ from those of their leader.
  10. sidi AQ that last post of yours was spot on! actually if you look through the "issues" tahir and others on the tafzili forum have with mainstream sunni positions it is often exactly because it doesn't comply with what is considered moral by today's (mostly western) standards of morality etc OR , in what must be a monumental coincidence, his problems with mainstream sunni positions always tend to coincide with those of the shia.

    i can bet you that he and his co-cultists will deny that hazrat imam hassan :as: married so many times. they will say it is only propoganda against the noble imam by jealous ummawis and kharijis!!
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    THIS is EXACTLY the problem with these arrogant jahil peers. It is their trademark.

    They breed this "overnight wali syndrome" into people. Rather than calling people to self examining themselves and reflecting at our states and our sinfulness, begging and pleading in front of Allah with our debased and sinful states, and respecting the elders of the ummah - these juhhaal breed this sickening arrogance and pretentiousness.

    That mardood tahir-riaz's posts are FULL of it:

    Pretentious garbage like (emphasis mine):

    I say again. Just who does this pendu-trash think he is?

    He thinks he's either an Imam-e-Ishq-e-Nabi like An-Nawawi or As-Suyuti or indeed Ala Hazrat from the latter era. It's no guesswork that this idiot is trying a hand at the pretentious maulvigiri of those fake peers who try to copy the outwardly sayings of the awliyaa, only they say it void of both the knowledge and the ahwaal that those awliyaa say it with - and buffoons like this say it with an EVEN GREATER void than those maulvis.

    AND (not "or" - mind you)

    that he is some sort of a master muhaddith, with his pretentious arrogance that starts right at the thread title:

    Try speaking in the same tone at his peer (I assume its Mr. Abdul Qadir Jilani).

    Mr. Abdul Qadir Jilani can make my blood pressure shoot!

    and watch idiots like this give you a lecture on adab.

    THIS, dear brothers and sisters, IS the state of the mureed of just about every deviant mullah out there.

    You will experience this overnight wali syndrome in the mureeds of nuh keller, the blind followers of hamza yusuf, his disgrace tahirul padri, and so on including Mr. Abdul Qadir Jilani - which is laden with arrogance in the name of a few bits and pieces of half-baked knowledge and pretension in the name of love, humility and adab.

    They think they have become masters of all sciences of the shari3ah and haqeeqah and karaamaat rain down on them. Of course they have all the adab, ikhlas, and khushu3 in the world. They say a few na3t's, don't they? They do dhikr when their peer arrives at an airport. What more do you guys want?!


    Coming to the larger agenda that this mardood is playing to, knowingly or unknowingly, if he keeps up with his idiocy, then I don't know what he is going to say regarding some other khasaais of the Prophet that he can't understand - based on his underdeveloped intellect. He will find himself treading on very dangerous grounds. Allah protect us.


    I doubt this moron will even understand the hikmah why Imam Hassan married hundreds of women and why Imam Ali, radi Allahu 3anhumaa, even got on the pulpit and warned people against giving their daughters to his son Hassan, and how both the father and son were right.

    This person is afflicted with the meta-ethical moral relativism & the superiority complex of the christians and the other kuffaar where they first define what is right or wrong based on their under-developed intellects and THEN judge deen based on it, rather than understanding that right and wrong are dictated by Allah and His Messenger, and it is our intellect that has to accept it. The christians use many such idiotic meta-ethical arguments to try and "refute" Islam.

    I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow he comes up with any other oh-so-moral argument, like the hindus 'objection' against us Muslims - "your cousins are supposed to be your sisters. you guys are immoral perverts marrying your sisters"

    After all - what's good or bad or right or wrong - is defined and dictated by people on internet forums, right?
    Abdullah Ahmed likes this.
  12. Wadood

    Wadood Veteran

    takfiri literalists is what rawafiD in 'Iraq and Kuwait call wahhabis and Sunnis generally in the arab world. I am very very familiar with this terminology. It seems, hasnain is paying frequent visits to arab twelver websites.

    Innocent Sunnis, being labelled as takfiri literalists, were brutally killed and burned alive in the streets of Baghdad not too long ago.
  13. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

  14. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    The 'shia enquirer' has tried his hand at refuting AH's post. I am amazed.
    he names his thread:
    He tried to refute a post that he LITERALLY understood NOT.
  15. jasimisbest2

    jasimisbest2 Active Member

    Tahir has lost the plot, he believes he is to educated, and an over edcuated person to me is just MAD.....
  16. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

  17. kattarsunni

    kattarsunni Veteran

    Where is Abu Fadl and where is his fake objectiveness?
  18. i just went and had a look and i feel sick. this group have given themselves the right to accept and reject any hadith sharif they like based on their own whims and desires. that makes them worse than wahabis.

    they are heretix and modernists hiding under the guise of sunnis with many of them being outright shia like the user fatema-the-resplendent. isn't it strange how all of their criticisms of bukhari etc. are exactly the same as those of the rafidis?
  19. Muhammad Ali

    Muhammad Ali Veteran

    Great post by Brother Abu Hasan. Brother Abu Hasan for years has been doing excellent work and shutting this lot up.

    Not even one of them their have the ability or the knowledge to last in front of Brother Abu Hasan! I'm just not saying this but we have saw it for ourselves. Since the thread Brother Abu Hasan started on Sayiduna Imam Ghazzali Rehmatullahi Alahi.
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    tahir riaz is adding more points against him for takfir. remember his blasphemy some years ago about a sofa... i consider it beneath my dignity to even mention him or his awful site or his pathetic buddies, but i do this because, forums have come to exert some influence on a section of youth.

    to reject a SaHiH hadith whose chain is rigorously authenticated, is kufr.
    al-iyadhu billah.

    the example of tahir is like a madman who lives on a garbage dump, who already reeks like the dump he lives in; one fine day, he passes by a nice garden and sees nice bunch of lilies. not being able to discern the whiff of fresh flowers, he looks at the color and the shape from afar (they don't let him enter the garden) and goes about raving that lilies smell like rotten eggs.

    not being able to read the blessed book in arabic, he resorts to some translation - and as can be expected from a madman on a garbage dump, he picks up this translation from an anti-islamic site.

    which person with dignity would approach the stinking madman and attempt to correct his 'misunderstanding'?

    send this question to pir abdul qadir and get his opinion on this. if he calls himself a scholar, it is fard on him to answer.

    update: al-iyadhu billah. i just read more of his posts and i am afraid he is committing kufr. regardless, i stopped considering him a muslim long ago. laa Hawla wa laa quwwata illa billah. calling a SaHiH hadith as rubbish? astaghfirullahi'l a'azeem. all because these things are not agreeable to his western masters. even rushdie did not fall to such depths of debasing oneself for [erstwhile] colonial masters.

    because you are unworthy of buying flowers. you don't appreciate it - you cannot smell it and you are a madman living on a garbage dump whose knowledge is limited to rotten eggs and festering onions.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011

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