Istigātha at a distance

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Tariq Owaisi, Nov 8, 2023.

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  1. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    I’m not sure if there is specifically a Hadith with all these exact parameters all within the same Hadith.

    but one can definitely deduce all of these things based on disparate ahadith.

    -the Prophet ﷺ has the ability to hear from far and close. This is described and mentioned in various narrations.

    -seeking help from the Prophet ﷺ is allowed and recommended. This is described and mentioned in Quran and Hadith.

    -as far as I’m aware, there is no single Hadith that forbids calling out to the Prophet ﷺ from afar.

    Therefore putting all these together, one can already logically conclude that this is permissible.

    sometimes you may not get the exact parameters for what you are seeking but deduction helps in clarifying matters.

    On the flip side:

    a good question is:

    Is there any Quranic Verse or Prophetic narration that explicitly and specifically restricts Istigatha to a certain distance?

    If not, then cannot place such restrictions based on one’s own whim.
  2. Tariq Owaisi

    Tariq Owaisi Well-Known Member

    Yes, the hadiths of the blind men. Theres two one where the Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam taught a man during his life, and another where a companion taught someone else who could not get through to the caliph (Usman Ghani May Allah be pleased with him)

    A few salafis have accepted and taught their students there is some evidence in the hadith for the ahlus sunnah position.
  3. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    So salafis are disowning ibn kathir, who they have claimed to be their own? Salafis have just handful of old-gen "scholars" to quote and bank on - ibn taymiyyah, ibn qayyim and ibn kathir. The latter wasn't an outright deviant salafi, despite his teacher.

    The only reason I quoted this narration (and not any other) is because salafis find it hard to label it as fabrication.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  4. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    yes this is better. How to respond to someone who says that when they were saying Yā Muhammada, they weren't asking for help, rather, they were only saying that slogan out of love? also a so-called salafī website says:
    The slogan “Yaa Muhammadaah” or “Waa Muhammadaah” is not mentioned in any sound report as being a slogan used by the Sahaabah in battle, as we shall see below. Even if we assume that it is sound, it does not come under the heading of seeking his help or asking him for something, because there is no suggestion of asking, as is clear from the apparent meaning. Rather it comes under the heading of lamentation, or the call of one who is expressing grief. It is as if the Muslims, by saying that, were encouraging one another to fight by expressing their grief for the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and their grief for what was happening to his religion, as when they said “Waa Islamaah (Alas for Islam).”
    TruthWinner likes this.
  5. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    Because there's a specific hadīth where its done right in front of the qabr of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasalam (see hadīth of malik dar). That seems to give it some objective distance. Now sure, Allāh can make him hear at a distance, I understand that, but I want a text showing the sahābah clearly asked for help from a distance since our aqīdah isnt just based on possibilities.
    TruthWinner likes this.
  6. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    How about this? Have you heard about the sahaba raising the slogan of "Ya Muhammada ﷺ" in the battle of Yamamah against musaylma kadhab?

    ibn Kathir writes in al-Bidaya wa'l-Nihaya (6:324) that the rallying cry of the Muslims at the battle of Yamamah was: ‘O Muhammad!’ (Ya Muhammada ﷺ) (O Muhammad ﷺ Help us). Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed رضي الله عنه‎ battled the enemies until he passed through their ranks and went to the mountain of the musaylma. He was watching closely, waiting to find him and kill him. He then returned to the armies and called for individual one-on-one combat saying “I am ibn al-Walid the one who returns, I am ibn Amir and Zayd.” He then called out with the battle cry of the Muslims, and the battle cry on that day was: O Muhammad ﷺ!
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  7. Abdullah Ahmed

    Abdullah Ahmed Veteran

    why does distance make a difference?

    if it is valid from up close, then it is also valid from “far.”

    who’s to judge what’s close and far anyways?

    At what exact distance does the label change from “close” to “far? Distance is relative. For you what might be far is close for someone else..
    Noori likes this.
  8. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    TruthWinner likes this.
  9. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    tabarani: mujam al kabir
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  10. Ahlesaabiqoon

    Ahlesaabiqoon Active Member

    Is there any authentic report that explicitly shows that the Sahābah radiallahu anhum asked the Prophet (Sallallahu alayhi wasalam) for help at a far distance from his grave?

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