latest sh.yaqubi speech

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by AR Ahmed, Jan 19, 2021.

Draft saved Draft deleted
  1. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    Shaykh Asrar Rashid and Shaykh Muhammad Aslam with Shaykh Abd al-Rahman Ibn Sayyiduna Shaykh Murabit al-Hajj today, Shaykh Ajmad Mahmood was also present in the gathering
     

    Attached Files:

    Waqar786 likes this.
  2. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    I agree with @Ikhwaan and I have mentioned in my other posts too that Shaykh Aslam needs to clarify his stance because it is his responsibility to do so. After speaking to Shaykh Asrar, I have a better understanding of the situation and I came away from that discussion with hope that in the future there will be greater cooperation and coordination between the scholars and issues will be dealt in house, so there will be more unity and less mudslinging. @kaydani1 - Reading your last post (and the discussion with Shaykh Asrar) has made it clear that I have misjudged your approach to Shaykh Aslam and I really hope that you are able to secure a clarification from Shaykh Aslam (and others) on this issue. I also hope that in future that meeting between scholars on issues is less fractious and we see greater unity, understanding and cooperation. I will like to commend the efforts of Shaykh Asrar, Pir Saqib Shami and others in trying to get this process off the ground and and I hope these endevourstangible fruition. As the event in Zia ul Quran (Birmingham) highlighted, we are facing major and grave issues, so it is imperative our scholars are on the same page and not distracted by peripheral issues, so that they can help tackle the massive issues, which in turn will act as guidance, reassurance and direction for us all in these dark times,
    @kaydani1
    Also, can you PM me your identity because I think I know you or at least someone very close to you.
     
  3. Ikhwaan

    Ikhwaan New Member

    Salaam,

    The impression I get is that there is one thing which EVERY one here agrees with.....and that is that SA needs to sit and give clarification on some of his stances. Those who are somewhat, I say with caution, defending SA's refusing to clarify also mention that the stance requires clarification, however, he should have been contacted without the use of foul language etc etc... Now that it has been made clear he was contacted and a respectful approach was adopted, would you agree that he should clarify??

    One thing i will mention however, is that the imam plays a public role and when a large portion of the public requests clarification on an issue he should clarify. Especially an issue which is so important and dear to the hearts of Muslims all over.
     
    Ghulam Ali and Haqbahu like this.
  4. kaydani1

    kaydani1 Active Member

    @Paradise Seeker

    We and Aslam can testify that the communications we have made to Aslam did not contain any foul language, nor anything out of order; not even traces of it.
     
    Moriarty likes this.
  5. Paradise Seeker

    Paradise Seeker Active Member

    From my reading of the thread the op makes it clear that direct contact has been made, therefore Shaykh Aslam is aware of the issue but not addressing it, instead has resorted to blocking any further contact being made.... (we don't know the nature of these talks) If they were cordial and respectful which i'm guessing they were, then what is wrong with making this public?

    As previous incidents have shown many famous personalities have ignored similar private meetings, but when things become public they have no choice but to make a retraction of their blunders...
     
  6. Hashim Aftab

    Hashim Aftab New Member

    Apologies. Though I assume you're simply saying 'calm down with the language bro' in, well, a verbose way...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  7. Abu al-Qasim

    Abu al-Qasim Active Member

    You are very verbose and magniloquent, it makes it a chore to read what you write. I'm not commenting on the subject matter of your post but only on your style of writing. Please leave all the bombastic language aside.
     
  8. Hashim Aftab

    Hashim Aftab New Member

    @kaydani1

    Now that you have everyone's attention here, what are the next steps in this endeavour of yours?

    What means of rhetoric did you employ when pitching the case to your heart that a haphazard (public) approach like this would land you some face time with SA? A sincere heart does surely rally against such frivolity, but I imagine you will have quashed its pleas by bamboozling it with the odd logical fallacy or two.

    I appreciate that a discussion needs to be had with SA, and whether or not you'll go on to share a private platform with him, there is no shying away from the fact that threads like this spawn nothing but discord, dismay and disenchantment.

    The mere upshot is this: the request for a private meeting should not be made in a public manner, because not only is it self-defeating, it is obscenely ironic. The approach must be commensurate with the intention. You seem like someone who rolls in the right circles to be able to establish the contact you want, so I'm sure that with some patience and perserverance, you will get what you want. And any cries of disagreement in this respect are frankly futile, if not risible at best.

    Finally, what did you consider of the uninformed users who frequent this site? All they will see when reading this thread is mudslinging and infighting. Did you even consider the impact of this before tearing into the room with your hasty pen? All I will say is that, by Allāh, such a pen can only ever achieve an illegible scrawl - never a coherent message.

    And Allāh and His Messenger know best.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2015
  9. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    I think very carefully before I write and I will premise my response by admitting, I probably have failed to employ Husn al-zann with you but that is down to the fact that I have read your responses with regards to Shaykh Aslam and it come across that you want to prove that he is guilty. If I have got that wrong, then I apoligise and I understand that you have become frustrated with Shaykh Aslam's lack of response. However, that is clouding your objectivity and you mentioning a issue that happened in Shaykh Aslam's home as a means to a prove point demonstrates that the issue has become quite personal. Your first comment about humility is baseless as mentioning that you are graduate from a recognized University is a means of authenticating your position, not to 'big yourself up.' The things I said about Shaykh Aslam is things I have witnessed, so it is not the case of just supporting people that I like. If you have read my earlier posts, I have mentioned things about coordination and unity, so you cannot accuse me of double standards. I want all Sunni Scholars to get along. I was probably again guilty of assuming that you are seeking a fatwa from the ulema of Hijaz but you can have a fatwa with or without names. Why I advised against contacting Arab Scholars was that Shaykh Aslam made the speech in this country and he made it in English. Is it not better to seek the opinion of seeking the opinion of Scholars in the country, (I am sure you have) who will have a better understanding of the context in which Shaykh Aslam, instead translating or transcribing the Shaykh's speech in Arabic, which might lead to things being lost in translation and the correct context not being gauged. I am not going to compare the calibre of scholars in the Uk to the ones in Arabia but surely if you are unable to unpick errors from that speech, then the scholars here can do it with greater aplomb. In summation, I am not shuddering in my boots about the fatwa from the Hejaz but rather I think there is no need.
    I did not get the chance to speak to Mufti Munawwar Ateeq today (I have been hearing that he has raised concerns about the interview, so I was going request him to seek clarification from Shaykh Aslam himself, as that might be more palatable) but I did not get a chance. I will be speaking to Shaykh Asrar, as I have discussed Shaykh Aslam with him previously and I will be interested in what he has got to say. I will not making further comment because I feel we are going in circles but I would like to make clear that if I have upset in anyway, then I apoligise. I just want to see greater respect for our Sunni ulema and that they are not slandered, which they have been with baseless sarcastic comments but in doing so, I have not shown you more of a benefit of the doubt, for which, I hope you will be forgive you. I am sure you want to see greater unity between our scholars and any issues are dealt with objectivity and the spirit of correction rather than exposure and bad mouthing.
     
  10. Harris786

    Harris786 Veteran

    I'm sure he called that same guest a Shaytan and said all Fitnas are caused due to him. I hear his mother even attempted to calm the situation down but he continued his verbal attack....

     
  11. kaydani1

    kaydani1 Active Member

    Pot, Kettle, Black.

    Humility is not boasting (printing "Graduate of Ma`had al-Fath" on every poster). We know of the time when he shouted at one of his guests (in his house) for an hour, mentioning 'People can't believe you have a wife and a daughter', a few people have mentioned this. Is this the way you speak to someone. Honestly, I would be ashamed to say such a thing no matter who the person is. I wouldn't even say something like that to Aslam!

    With regards to Yasin, he himself has a dodgy stance on this matter and shall be brought to the surface too.

    @Waqar786, you once again failed to employ Husn al-Zann in this matter and targeting us as people who are consistently after a Fatwa. It's quite sad that you have double standards and only use it for those who you like. By contacting the Ulama of Hijaz, we could had been merely asking their opinion of this matter without names? Did you not think of that when you began pointing fingers at us for seeking a Fatwa? Even if we did seek a Fatwa, why do you shudder in your boots?

    Please think before you write.
     
    Harris786 and Haqbahu like this.
  12. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

  13. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    He's been seeking attention for a few years now- another day, another forum user another slander- I remember Shaykh Aslam when he first returned from Syria and he was very low key. I remember in his earlier gatherings, he did not allow recordings or allow his picture taken. I remember a Sunni Conference a couple of years ago, he did not want to sit in the front and chose to sit to one side. Is this a person, who is seeking attention. I reiterate that I am not a supporter of Shaykh Aslam but I will not take a back sit, when I know a scholar is being slandered. It is these comments that create a barrier between us and the Shaykh, so when we come with genuine concerns, he does not want to know. Why is that, I ask?
    @kaydani1
    You said ''if Aslam makes tawba for what he has said and comes back to the way of Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a'
    This indicates that you currently regard the Shaykh outside the fold of Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama'a but you have qualified that in your last post ( I testify that Aslam is a Sunni), so we can move on from that. However, with regards to the Ulema of Hijaz, I cannot see why you would contact them with regards to the Shaykh without the view of seeking a fatwa, as reading your recent posts, it is clear that you already feel that the Shaykh is guilty and you just want confirmation from the ulema of Hijaz. I have already advised that the best approach is to contact a scholar here (as far as I am aware the Shaykh has a lot of respect for Pir Saqib Shaami and gets on well with Shaykh Yaseen), who the shaykh respects and ask them to seek clarification from Shaykh Aslam. I ask you do you want to prove that Shaykh is guilty or do you want to clarification, I hope it is the latter but it seems like the former.
     
  14. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    He's been seeking attention for a few years now- another day, another forum user another slander- I remember Shaykh Aslam when he first returned from Syria and he was very low key. I remember in his earlier gatherings, he did not allow recordings or allow his picture taken. I remember a Sunni Conference a couple of years ago, he did not want to sit in the front and chose to sit to one side. Is this a person, who is seeking attention. I reiterate that I am not a supporter of Shaykh Aslam but I will not take a back sit, when I know a scholar is being slandered. It is these comments that create a barrier between us and the Shaykh, so when we come with genuine concerns, he does not want to know. Why is that, I ask?
     
  15. kaydani1

    kaydani1 Active Member

    Please watch from 34.26:



    Aslam mentions how Shaykh Shukri رحمة الله عليه was very approachable no matter who the person was.

    Aslam/Aslam admirers, if you're watching, for the sake of these words please contact us or allow us to contact you.
     
  16. agent-x

    agent-x Well-Known Member

    He's been seeking attention for a few years now... and now he has the attention that he has so long been seeking.

    He should step up to the mark regardless of who it is and clarify.

    There are MANY issues surrounding him and I'm so happy that sunnis of Birmingham have started to realise and highlight the issues with him, well over due!!!
     
  17. kaydani1

    kaydani1 Active Member

    We have not to date declared Aslam as a non-Sunni; please check previous posts carefully. I testify that Aslam is a Sunni (as far as I am aware) with some concerning statements.

    Regarding the Ulama of Hijaz, what's wrong with making contact with them? Alhamd li'Allah, we make contact with them throughout the year. Please have Husn al-Zann and don't think that we are always seeking a Fatwa.
     
    Ghulam Ali and Moriarty like this.
  18. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    This shows to me that you have already convicted him, so what dialogue will there be, if the starting point is that you deem the Shaykh no longer part of 'Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a.' Up until today, I have not heard any scholar say that Shaykh Aslam is no longer a Sunni but if you know of any, then please be kind enough to give names. If there are not any, then please refrain from indicting scholars and 'kicking' them out of Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a, as many keyboard warriors on social media have. You have full right to ask the Shaykh Aslam about the interview and clarify issues but if you are going to approach them with the attitude that you think he is no longer Sunni, then you will be met with the response that you got. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we need to leave judgments about scholars to scholars and not slander and claim that they are not 'sunni' or they are 'Sullah Kulli, like many members on this forum have about many scholars. This what causes friction, division and distrust.
    @Harris786 ,
    My dealings with Shaykh Aslam, albeit limited that they are, I always found him to be very humble and the notion that he is too 'sophisticated' to speak to Bralweis is something, I have to disagree with. I will admit that he is quite reserved and that can come across, as quite abrupt or awkward but that is just his nature. I am sure if you approach him with the view of clarifying misunderstandings and husn ul-dhan, he will speak to you.
    Firstly, I would like to apoligise for assuming that you made those comments, without trying to speak to the Shaykh beforehand. However, I find point 4 very pertinent and it something that @AbuHamza alluded to. Shaykh Aslam was mentioned in a video by name and attacked, so I understand the fact that you say that everyone should not be tarred with same brush but you should also understand that in the wake of that attack, the Shaykh will be extremely guarded and reticent to speak to individuals, outside his circle. Whether that approach is right or wrong is up for debate but I can understand where the Shaykh is coming from. What I want to see is greater coordination between our young Sunni Scholars, especially those whose outlooks are seemingly different like Shaykh Aslam and Shaykh Asrar. Furthermore, it should be up to the Scholars to approach each other, if they have concerns about one another, so they can be disc cussed in a knowledgeable way. Too often it is murreeds or supporters of a particular Shaykh hyping up situations, especially on social media, which often leads to division and fitna, and more importantly, without the issue being involved. On a massive issue like the one discussed on the interview, how much better would it had been, if there was a consultation between the scholars and a joint statement being put forward, which would have alleviated the issues that were point of contention (on reflection, I do agree with you some of the Shaykh's comments were problematic but giving an interview to a major news channel, he could not speak in the manner that the Shaykh did in the video that you have attached either) but because there is no coordination, we will see these issues cropping up again and again. I know the points that I am making do not apply exactly to you but I hope that they will be taken into consideration, as part of the wider part of the discussion.


    @Abu Hamza
    I agree with your points, especially about the fact about the Ulema in Hijaz. This sums up my earlier points in a nutshell because it proves how divided we all are and our ulema are not able to sit together and discuss issues, which is why such issues will keep occurring. Shaykh Aslam is required to respond to concerns because the video was not made in private but was very much in the public domain and if anyone mentions anything in public, then the public have full right to question or ask for clarification. The best way forward is to speak to a like minded scholar, who has a good relationship with Shaykh Aslam and ask them to raise the issue with the Shaykh. I doubt Shaykh Aslam is willing to speak to any of us but I am sure there are scholars that he respects and will be willing to listen to. When the people of knowledge err, it is best that the people of knowledge correct them and not every tom dick and harry because there might be nuances in that video that we are not aware of. I choose the word 'nuances' with a bit of fear because I do not want people linking me to Hamza Yusuf.
     
  19. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    This shows to me that you have already convicted him, so what dialogue will there be, if the starting point is that you deem the Shaykh no longer part of 'Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a.' Up until today, I have not heard any scholar say that Shaykh Aslam is no longer a Sunni but if you know of any, then please be kind enough to give names. If there are not any, then please refrain from indicting scholars and 'kicking' them out of Ahl al-Sunna wa al-Jama`a, as many keyboard warriors on social media have. You have full right to ask the Shaykh Aslam about the interview and clarify issues but if you are going to approach them with the attitude that you think he is no longer Sunni, then you will be met with the response that you got. As I mentioned in my earlier post, we need to leave judgments about scholars to scholars and not slander and claim that they are not 'sunni' or they are 'Sullah Kulli, like many members on this forum have about many scholars. This what causes friction, division and distrust.
    @Harris786 ,
    My dealings with Shaykh Aslam, albeit limited that they are, I always found him to be very humble and the notion that he is too 'sophisticated' to speak to Bralweis is something, I have to disagree with. I will admit that he is quite reserved and that can come across, as quite abrupt or awkward but that is just his nature. I am sure if you approach him with the view of clarifying misunderstandings and husn ul-dhan, he will speak to you.
    Firstly, I would like to apoligise for assuming that you made those comments, without trying to speak to the Shaykh beforehand. However, I find point 4 very pertinent and it something that @AbuHamza alluded to. Shaykh Aslam was mentioned in a video by name and attacked, so I understand the fact that you say that everyone should not be tarred with same brush but you should also understand that in the wake of that attack, the Shaykh will be extremely guarded and reticent to speak to individuals, outside his circle. Whether that approach is right or wrong is up for debate but I can understand where the Shaykh is coming from. What I want to see is greater coordination between our young Sunni Scholars, especially those whose outlooks are seemingly different like Shaykh Aslam and Shaykh Asrar. Furthermore, it should be up to the Scholars to approach each other, if they have concerns about one another, so they can be disc cussed in a knowledgeable way. Too often it is murreeds or supporters of a particular Shaykh hyping up situations, especially on social media, which often leads to division and fitna, and more importantly, without the issue being involved. On a massive issue like the one discussed on the interview, how much better would it had been, if there was a consultation between the scholars and a joint statement being put forward, which would have alleviated the issues that were point of contention (on reflection, I do agree with you some of the Shaykh's comments were problematic but giving an interview to a major news channel, he could not speak in the manner that the Shaykh did in the video that you have attached either) but because there is no coordination, we will see these issues cropping up again and again. I know the points that I am making do not apply exactly to you but I hope that they will be taken into consideration, as part of the wider part of the discussion.
     
  20. Abu Hamza

    Abu Hamza Hanafi-Maturidi

    @kaydani1

    My concerns regarding the audio are exactly the same as yours, and the mutawatir hadith you mentioned in your first post is very pertinent in this instance. I do believe that he has erred and that he needs to be informed and retract from his statement.

    My issue to begin with was the approach. It doesnt work. Even though the audio has gone viral, fitnah like this needs to be contained as much as possible and stamped out in the most discrete manner. We have too many divisions as it is, and like @Moriarty said, public denouncing and exposing makes things worse [unless absolutely neccesary].

    This should remain a private matter and extra efforts should be made to contact him. You know better than me that Ala'Hazrat's efforts continued for years, it was only when he had exhausted every effort that he approached the Ulema of the Haramayn Sharifayn, [I mention this only because you referred to Ala'Hazrat in post 5].

    I find it quite shocking how you have already resorted to contacting Ulema of the Hijaz, if anything, it shows how incompetent we've become, Sunni's on our own doorstep don't wish to speak to us, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious. More importantly, what's with the hastiness? I do believe that more can be done, perhaps transcribing his radio interview and highlighting the controversial points and reference incidents such as that of Ka'b Ibn Ashraf [La'natullahi alay] and how he was killed by Sayyiduna Muhammad Ibn Maslamah [Radi'Allahu Anh] on the orders of the Prophet [Alayhisalam] as well as those that you mentioned, and then sending it to him, perhaps he will realise his mistake and retract, the fact that this hasn't already been done proves that "all avenues have not been closed". It's possible that he may have glossed over them, forgot about them, or never came across them at all.. however unlikely that may be.

    Allah Almighty knows best.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2015

Share This Page