Qur'an on 'Geocentricity' and a 'Flat Earth'

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Qasim Saifi, Sep 8, 2023.

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  1. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Something similar here.

    However, this frame of reference, called heliocentrism, still is not the best frame for everything. Astronomers who study other galaxies use a galactic coordinate system based on our Milky Way galaxy, and the Sun is just another star inside it. Call it galactocentrism, if you want, and it’s just as useful as geo- or heliocentrism in its limited way. And none of those systems work if I want to know turn-by-turn directions while driving; in that case I use a carcentric system (specifically a Volvocentric one).

    You use coordinate systems depending on what you need.

    So really, there is no one true center to anything. I suppose you could say the Universe is polycentric, or more realistically acentric. You picks your frame of reference and you takes your chances.


    towards the end he says that if one uses geocentrism as the frame of reference (for everything) then a lot of phenomena become unnecessarily complex. The math just becomes undoable or scales and the cause-effect chain becomes implausibly huge.

    However, this is no argument at all - especially for people who believe in a millions of years long "evolution" with jump-starts and tiny pushes every now and the - for no good reason at all - miraculous is the right word. Claims of over-complexity or implausibility from such quarters are very very rich indeed.
  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator


    I think this entire issue is a bit problematic from a logical standpoint. To determine what is moving and what is stationary is a relative issue. If you have two objects which are changing in position relative to each other, then you cannot tell if both or one of them are moving without a 3rd reference point. Then you have to decide which one is stationary, and only after that will you be able to say which of the two is moving. However, deciding the reference point, and determining it as being stationary is arbitrary, or dependent on another arbitrary reference point. The only way to decide what is moving and what is not then, is by reference to a 3rd reference point, arbitrarily determined as being “stationary.” In other words, when you say that the sun is moving, and not the Earth, what is the reference point, and how do you determine it without arbitrary choice? Now, clearly modern scientists make these conclusions based on what is known about physics, and their belief that the was a big bang somewhere in the middle of cosmos perhaps (which is, like Darwinism, only a theory). Basically, as I understand it, they consider larger objects as more stationary than smaller objects that move in relation to them. This is not completely arbitrary, but it is also not something we can say is the unequivocal truth, and known with certainty. Alternatively, if the objects at the outer surface of creation has no changing position relative to one another, then we can consider everything inside in relation to it. This is because the movement of creation as a whole is impossible, because it has no relative position to something else outside of it. So in this sense, the creation as a whole is not moving, relative to something else. However, this outer surface is not observable to us. For this reason, I see not reason for why both cannot be correct at the same time, as they are based on different assumptions of what is to be considered relatively stationary. It has an element of comparing apples with oranges in it in other words, so there is no need to exaggerate and make this issue very big.

    also see the follow-up comments.

    This thing was always at the back of mind - that how can we say with certainty that the Earth is moving -without having a third - "neutral" so to speak - reference point to validate that view. I see that shaykh. abu adam agrees.

    As I see it, the fact that many ulama have written about and defended the view of a stationary Earth - I would say that it is always safer to hold the opinion - that according to a third and absolute reference point - which is not accessible to humans as of now - the Earth is stationary and the celestial objects moving.

    P.S: I feel that this Darwinism article has been updated since I read it a few years back. There's things I don't remember reading. Which means shaykh abu adam is still updating the blog. Can anyone confirm?

    P.P.S: As for my personal opinion, if someone proved with absolute certainty (yes, we are going hypothetical here) that Alahazrat had held a view - which goes against the evidence of my senses - I would deny my senses and affirm Alahazrat's opinion.
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  3. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

  4. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Extracts from Nuzool e Ayaat e Furqan:

    Allamah Nizaam ud Deen Nishapuri wrote in Raghaib ul Furqan under this ayah:

    { إن الله يمسك السموات والأرض } أي يمنعهما من { أن تزولاً } أو كراهة زوالهما عن مقرهما ومركزهما

    "Meaning, Allah has stopped the heavens and the earth; that they do not move from their stations and places."

    The word قرار refers to stillness and negation of movement, it says in Qamus al Muheet: قر سکن , which means قر refers to stillness.

    Under the ayah ٱلَّذِي جَعَلَ لَكُمُ ٱلأَرْضَ فِرَٰشاً, Imam Fakhr ud Deen Razi writes in Tafsir Kabeer:

    اعلم أن كون الأرض فراشاً مشروط بأمور: الشرط الأول: كونها ساكنة

    "Know that the earth being a bed is conditioned by it being stationary"

    الأرض غير متحركة لا بالاستدارة ولا بالاستقامة

    "The earth is not moving with rotation nor is it moving directly"

    سكون الأرض ليس إلا من الله تعالى

    "The stillness of the earth is not except from Allah Talaa"

    بقدرته واختياره ولهذا قال الله تعالى: إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُمْسِكُ ٱلسَّمَـٰوٰتِ وَٱلأَرْضَ أَن تَزُولاَ

    "By His Qudrat and Ikhtiyaar and for this reason Allah Talaa says: 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing’"

    Under the same ayah in Gharaib ul Quran it is written:

    لا يتم الافتراش عليها ما لم تكن ساكنة

    "Making the earth into a bed is not complete until it is not stationary”

    Afqahus Sahabah after Khulafa Arbaa, Sayyiduna Abdullah bin Masood and Sahib e Sirr e RasoolAllah ﷺ Hazrat Huzdhayfah bin al Yaman RadiAllahu Anhum understood the ayah in Surah Fatir to mean absolute negation of movement, to the extent they narrated that even staying in one place and rotating around its axis is also Zawaal.

    Hazrat Imam Abu Malik Tabi Thiqah Jaleel Tilmeez e Hazrat Abdullah bin Abbas gave Tafsir of Zawal to mean absolute movement.

    Who knows the Arabic language and meanings of the Quran better than these respected ones?

    We are to take those meanings of the Quran e Azeem that the Sahabah, Tabieen, Mufassireen Mutamideen took, to go against all these and take the meaning which is found from Christian science, how can this be permissible for a Muslim?

    Tafsir of the Quran e Kareem with ones own opinion is a severe thing upon which the ruling is:

    "Let him take his seat in the Fire"

    This will be worse than that as the Tafsir of Quran Majeed is not even from his own opinion but rather the opinions of the Christians, Wal Iyadhu Billah, this Huzdhayfah bin al Yaman RadiAllahu Anhuma is that Jaleel ul Qadr Sahabi to whom RasoolAllah ﷺ taught their secrets to, their title is Sahib e Sirr e RasoolAllah ﷺ, Amir ul Mumineen Faruq e Azam RadiAllahu Anhu used to ask them regarding the secrets of Huzoor.

    And Abdullah is Abdullah, RasoolAllah ﷺ commanded that whatever he says, stick to it. And in one Hadith it is said:

    "I am pleased for my Ummat with what Abdullah bin Masood is pleased for it, and I have kept as disliked for my Ummat what Abdullah bin Masood has disliked for it."

    Also regarding their Ilm e Quran it was said:

    "Read Quran from 4 people", the first name mentioned was that of Abdullah bin Masood.

    This Hadith is in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim narrated by Abdullah bin Umar RadiAllahu Anhuma.

    Moreover, from the wondrous Divinely blessings is this that the Tafsir of the Ayah Kareemah "ان تزولا" and the Tafsir being that Zawal also includes rotating on its axis, we have narrated from 2 Jaleel ul Qadr Sahabis RadiAllahu Anhuma, and in regards to both of them Huzoor e Anwar ﷺ commanded us that whatever the 2 of them say then accept it.

    Both Hadiths are in Jami Tirmidhi Sharif:


    "Whatever Ibn Masood says/narrates to you, accept it."


    "Whatever Huzdhayfah says/narrates to yo, accept it."

    Thus this Tafsir is not from these 2 but rather it is the command of RasoolAllah ﷺ that we believe in it, that we accept it, Wa Alhamdu Lillahi Rabbil Alamin, the high status of our understanding is thus that it is proven from the Mufassireen, Tabieen, Sahabah e Kiraam, and Huzoor Sayyid ul Anaam ﷺ himself commanded us to accept it.

    The meaning you have taken that the earth orbits the sun and that Allah Taala only restrains it to the extent that it does not move out of its orbit, can this be shown from any Sahabi, Tabi, Imam, Tafsir, or any Islamic book where this is mentioned?

    Hasha Lillah! You will not be able to show this except from Christian science.
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  5. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Nothing is said there about the Earth being flat, only about it being stationary and the Sun being in motion, this must be believed as this is what the Quran says, rejecting this would be rejection of the Quran.
  6. Ibn Hadi

    Ibn Hadi Ya Ghaus e Azam Dastageer

    I think we must be careful here. This matter is not among the necessities of the religion. We can't call anyone kafir over this issue. Different scholars may interpret some of these ayahs differently.
    I would love a proper English translation of Alahazrat's Fawz Ul Mubeen. But this issue should be avoided, especially when talking to an atheist or non muslim. It will drive many people away if they think Muslims believe in a stationary Earth or a flat earth. (As far as I know the majority of scholars stated that the Earth is round)
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  7. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    The Earth is Stationary

    According to the western world, the sun is the stationary centre of the universe and the earth revolves on its own axis as well as around the sun. Insha Allah hereunder you will find proof from the Holy Qur’an that the earth is in fact stationary and the sun revolves around in an orbit. It is therefore incumbent on us to believe what the Holy Qur’an teaches us and to reject the western school of thought.

    Allah Ta’ala states in the Holy Qur’an, “And the sun moves on a prescribed course. This is the Commandment of the Most Honourable, the Most Knowing.”[Surah 36, Verse 38]

    This tells us that the heavens and the earth are anchored and the stars are floating in them. The movement of the sun is until its appointed time i.e. until the Day of Judgment. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]

    Allah Ta’ala further states, “The sun is not permitted to overtake the moon, nor can the night overtake the day. And each is floating in an orbit. [Surah 36, Verse 40]

    The first part of the verse means that the sun cannot rise at night to take away the light of the moon. Also, it cannot move swiftly like the moon; therefore the stages which the moon completes in twenty-eight days are completed by the sun in one year. If the sun were as swift as the moon then the seasons would not be formed correctly. The last part of the verse tells us that the orbit of each planet is different and that the stars are floating in such a way like the fish in the sea. But the sky itself is stationary. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]

    In another verse it is stated, “The sun and the moon have been set proportionately.” [Surah 55, Verse 5]

    This refers to the speed of the moon and the sun, which is determined by Allah Ta’ala. The speed with which they complete the heavenly stages helps man to determine the solar and lunar months of the year. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]

    The Glorious Qur’an further tells us, “And He made the sun and moon subservient for you which are constantly moving, and made the day and night subservient for you.” [Surah 14, Verse 33]

    The sun and the moon are constant without any breakage in them, nor do they take any leave for the purpose of resting. They serve us in such a manner that they would never become tired or ever be off duty. They are in constant movement for millions of years so that we can determine our time for work and rest and derive countless benefits from them. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]

    In proving the static nature of the earth, the Holy Qur’an says, “Undoubtedly, Allah upholds the heavens and the earth lest they deviate.” [Surah 35, Verse 41]

    This tells us that neither the earth nor the sky is in motion. Only the stars, the moon and the sun are in motion. Thus even the ancient philosophy, which advocated the movement of the sky, is false, as well as the modern philosophy which accepts that the earth moves on its own axis. [Tafseer Noorul Irfaan]

    Besides the above verses, there are numerous other verses of the Holy Qur’an that prove that the earth is stationary and the sun is in rotation. Some of these verses are quoted hereunder:

    • “And made the sun and the moon subservient. Each one runs to a term stated. Allah plans every affair and explains clearly the signs so that you may believe the meeting with your Lord.” [Surah 13, Verse 2]
    • “And He made the sun and moon and stars subservient to His command.” [Surah 7, Verse 54]
    • “And He made the day and the night, the sun and the moon subservient to you. And the stars are subservient by His command. Verily, in it there are signs for the wise people.” [Surah 16, Verse 12]
    • “And it is He Who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon. Each one is floating in a circumference.” [Surah 21, Verse 33]
    • “O listener! Did you not see that Allah turns night into the day and returns the day in the night and He makes the sun and the moon serve you? Each one pursues the course till an appointed term, and Allah is aware of your deeds.” [Surah 31, Verse 29]
    • “And He engages the services of the sun and the moon that each one runs up to an appointed time. This is Allah, your Lord. His is the Kingdom of the entire universe.” [Surah 35, Verse 13]
    • “And He has employed the sun and the moon into service. Each moves on its course to an appointed time. Do you hear? He is the Most Exalted in Power, the Most Forgiving.” [Surah 39, Verse 5]
    If someone insists on defending the western way of thought, then the following verse should suffice in answering them, “Does He not know, Who created? And He is the Knower of the minutest, being Well Aware.” [Surah 67, Verse 14]

    Therefore it is a clear denial and rejection of the Qur’anic verses to accept the sun as the static centre and the earth revolving around it.

    A’la Hazrat Imam Ahle Sunnat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has explained the Islamic theory (based on Qur’an and Hadith) that the earth is static. In favour of this A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) wrote the following treatises:

    1. Nuzool-e-Ayat-e-Furqan Besukoon-e-Zameen-o-Aasman
    2. Mueen-e-Mubeen Bahar Daur-e-Shams-o-Sukoon-e-Zameen
    3. Fauz-e-Mubeen Dar Radd-e-Harkat-e-Zameen
    In his first treatise, A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has discussed the earth theory in light of the Qur’an and Hadith that the earth and sky are static, by quoting several verses from the Holy Qur’an. In his second treatise, A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has elaborated that the sun is in motion while earth is static based on astronomical observations and calculations. In his treatise “Fauz-e-Mubeen” A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has not only proved that earth is static with 105 argumentations in light of modern physics, but also criticized the ideas of renowned scientists like Galileo, Kepler, Newton and Albert Einstein. In “Fauz-e-Mubeen” A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has discussed various scientific spheres of knowledge including Physics, Chemistry, Geology, Astronomy, Astrology, Mathematics, and covered the topics of planetary motion in the orbits and physical mechanics like attractive and repulsive forces, centripetal force, centrifugal force, friction coefficient, projectile motion, relative velocity, circular speed, buoyant force, density & pressure, structure of earth, theory of tides and distance from the sun, along with dozens of geometric diagram representations with algebraic, logarithmic and mathematical calculations. Subhaanallah! If this is the knowledge of the slave of Rasoolullah (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam), then what must be the knowledge of the Beloved Rasool (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) himself?

    Hereunder is an extract from the book “Fauz-e-Mubeen” to show us that not only does the Holy Qur’an disprove the western school of thought, but A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) has also scientifically proven (with extensive calculations, explanations and proofs) that the earth is stationary and the sun revolves around in an orbit. In his explanation, A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh) uses the assumption of the earth’s rotation to show the west how absurd a theory it is.

    “Two birds fly from a branch of a tree with equal speed to that of the earth’s rotation which is 1036 mph and one flies to the east and the other to the west. The one flying to the west will reach a distance of 2072 miles because as much as it went to the west, this branch went to the east due to the earth’s rotation. And the one going to the east will not move a hair’s length from the branch because as he is flying with the same speed the branch of the tree too, is going along with it. But we practically observe that both of them have equal speed going opposite to each other, and go to the same distance. If their speed of flying is less than that of the earth, for example 1035 mph, then the west-bound one will reach a distance of 2071 miles to the west. And its opponent, the east bound having toiled for an hour and having traversed 1035 miles will find itself only a mile away from the branch of that tree and that too, to its west. Isn’t it awkward that he just flew to the east direction and found himself to the west of the place? All this is absurd, false and contrary to observation.”

    This is just a small segment of one of the simpler arguments put forward by A’la Hazrat (Radiallahu Ta’ala Anh). In fact he even went on to refute, with numerous proofs, the assumption of scientists that the atmosphere also rotates with the earth, i.e. the bird will also move together with the branch due to the earth’s motion. However, it is too complicated to discuss here.

    We can therefore see that without doubt the earth is stationary. It does not rotate on its axis nor does it rotate around the sun. It is the sun, moon and stars that rotate in orbits and it is obligatory on us to believe in this, since refutation of even a single verse of the Holy Qur’an throws us out of the fold of Islam.

    May Allah Ta’ala grant us the Taufeeq and Hidayat to accept the truth and to reject the falsehood which the west is spreading throughout the world, Ameen.

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  8. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

  9. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran


    Allaah, with whose name I begin, the most beneficent and merciful

    Here, a basic principle upon which the Islamic rulings are based is discussed, among us, the Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah, the word of Allaah is not interpreted at one's own, rather it is taken in the way it was interpreted and expalined by the messenger of Allaah which is explained further to us by the companions (sahaaba) of the messenger of Allaah and further by the Taaba'een and following Mujtahiddens and the Scholars of deen i.e. those who are reliable.

    So firstly, I would quote a verse of Qur'an and would then point out to it's interpretation held by the companions of the messenger of Allaah and that too by the most knowledgeable person among the companions after the four Khalifas, Hazrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood (May Allaah be pleased with him).

    #Quraan_says :
    "Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing (Zawaal)"
    [Surah Fatir, 35:41]

    #The_Messenger_of_Allaah_said regarding Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood :
    "Learn Qur'an from four people, (firstly) Abdullah ibn Mas'ood..."
    [Saheeh Bukhaari 1:531]
    "The thing which Abdullaah Ibn Mas'ood tells you, consider it authentic"
    [Jaame' Tirmeezi 2:221]

    #Explanation_of_the_verse [35:41] by #Abdullaah_ibn_Mas'ood :
    Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood was made to know that Ka'b said that (the Earth and) the Skies are on the shoulder of an angel and they are rotating, he replied to them that Ka'b said the wrong thing and read the above verse, 'Indeed Allah restrains the heavens and the earth from convulsing...'
    [Ad-durr Al Mansoor, Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim]

    Alhamdu Lillaah, this proves that near Hadrat Abdullaah ibn Mas'ood, neither of the skies or Earth is rotation or revolving, he believed that the Skies and Earth are stationary.
    #Conclusion : Thus, by the command of the beloved messenger of Allaah, it is necessary for us to believe in the station of the Earth.

    Allaah guides those whom he wishes.


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  10. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member


    Regarding ayah 5 in surah mulk where Allah SWT says: And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.
    Ibn Kathir says in his tafsir that it is referring to meteorites and that they are made from the stars, but we know through science that meteorites have absolutely nothing to do with stars.
    I know we shall not judge quran by science since science changes but I feel like this is an excuse. Science cannot tell us 100% if something is right, but it can tell us 100% that something is wrong, for example that the earth is not flat. We know 100% it is not flat, but we cant say that it is round with 100% sureness. So what is the right interpretation on this issue? This is the only argument the kuffar use which I feel is hard to refute.
    Published Date: 2016-09-25
    Praise be to Allah

    We do not think there is any basis for this doubt or criticism at all, and we do not believe that it deserves the description mentioned in the question, that “it is the only argument the kuffar use which … is hard to refute”, for a simple and clear reason which no two people will dispute about. That reason is the fact that the Arabic language uses the word najm (stars) to refer to all heavenly bodies. So a luminous meteor (shihaab) may be a “najm”, a meteor (nayzak) may be a “najm” and a planet (kawkab) may be a “najm.”

    As for limiting the word “najm” and using it only to refer to huge heavenly bodies that have fixed locations in the sky, are burning and emit light by themselves, such as the sun, and using the word “kawkab” to refer to solid heavenly bodies that are not burning, such as the planets of the solar system, this is modern astronomical terminology. There is nothing wrong with adopting and using this terminology, as there is no problem with the terminology itself, but it is wrong to judge the language of the Holy Quran by the terminology of later eras. Rather what we must do is understand the Holy Quran in accordance with the Arabic language, because that is the language in which the Quran was revealed. Whoever disagrees with that is like one who understands the word sayyaarah in the verse “And there came a caravan of travellers [sayyaarah]; they sent their water-drawer” [Yoosuf 12:20] as referring to the vehicle that is known nowadays in which people ride and travel by mechanical means [sayyaarah in modern Arabic means “car”] then raises an objection against the Quran by saying that cars were not invented at the time of Yoosuf (peace be upon him), so how can cars be mentioned here?!

    The response – in both cases – is that it is essential to pay attention to differences in concepts and terminology, and it is essential to pay attention to the Arabic language in which the Holy Quran was revealed. Arabic does not use the word najm specifically to refer to light-emitting heavenly bodies. Rather, in Arabic, heavenly bodies may be divided into those that are fixed and those that are moving, those that are light and those that are dark. All of them may be called nujoom (plural of najm). This is how the Holy Quran uses the word. In the verse of Soorat al-Mulk mentioned, nujoom (heavenly bodies) are divided into two types: those that are lamps which illuminate the heavens, which are the light-emitting stars, and those that move – this includes luminous meteors (shihaab), meteors (nayzak), planets (kawkab) and others. The Arabs also call these nujoom.

    So there is no scientific error with regard to this matter; rather it is the matter of variation in meanings and usage.

    Hence the pronoun in the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “and We have made them (as) missiles to drive away the Shayatin (devils)” [al-Mulk 67:5] refers to nujoom and moving heavenly bodies. All heavenly bodies that move are called nujoom, with no hesitation, in Arabic. Thus there is no scientific problem in the verse.

    There follow the views of some leading scholars of Arabic language, those who know the language and its usage well.

    Al-Faraaheedi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    Any of the known planets may be called najm. The word nujoom includes all the planets.

    End quote from al-‘Ayn (6/154)

    Ibn Saydah said:

    Najm means kawkab.

    End quote from al-Muhkam wa’l-Muheet al-A‘zam (7/469).

    Ibn Manzoor said:

    The word najm originally referred to any of the kawaakib (plural of kawkab) of the sky.

    End quote from Lisaan al-‘Arab (12/570)

    Al-Fayrooazabaadi said:

    Najm means kawkab.

    End quote from al-Qaamoos al-Muheet (p. 1161)

    Az-Zubaydi said:

    The words najm and kawkab may be used interchangeably.

    End quote from Taaj al-‘Uroos (4/157)

    In order to confirm that, we will quote here – after researching the matter – all the places in which the words najm and kawkab appear in the Holy Qur’an so as to clearly highlight how synonymous these two terms are, and that moving astronomical bodies such as luminous meteors (shihaab) and meteors (nayzak) may also be called najm and kawkab in Arabic.

    “By the star [an-najm] when it goes down, (or vanishes)”

    [an-Najm 53:1]

    “By the heaven, and At-Tariq (the night-comer, i.e. the bright star);

    And what will make you to know what At-Tariq (night-comer) is?

    (It is) the star of piercing brightness [an-najm ath-thaaqib]”

    [at-Taariq 86:1-3]

    “Verily! We have adorned the near heaven with the stars [al-kawaakib] (for beauty).

    And to guard against every rebellious devil.

    They cannot listen to the higher group (angels) for they are pelted from every side.

    Outcast, and theirs is a constant (or painful) torment.

    Except such as snatch away something by stealing and they are pursued by a flaming fire of piercing brightness [shihaabun thaaqib]”

    [as-Saaffaat 37:6-10]

    “And indeed, We have put the big stars [burooj] in the heaven and We beautified it for the beholders.

    And We have guarded it (near heaven) from every outcast Shaitan (devil).

    Except him (devil) that gains hearing by stealing, he is pursued by a clear flaming fire [shihaabun mubeen]”

    [al-Hijr 15:16-18]

    “And we have sought to reach the heaven; but found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires [shuhub].

    And verily, we used to sit there in stations, to (steal) a hearing, but any who listens now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush [shihaaban rasada]”

    [al-Jinn 72:8-9].

    Another example is the report narrated in Saheeh Muslim (no. 220) from Husayn ibn ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan, who said: I was with Sa‘eed ibn Jubayr and he said: Who among you saw the shooting star [al-kawkab alladhi anqadda] last night?

    He called it a kawkab, even though it was falling and moving.

    Thus it becomes clear that the shihaab (luminous meteor) and nayzak (meteor) may also – according to Arabic linguistic convention – be referred to as kawaakib and nujoom.

    But not all kawaakib and nujoom can be called shihaab or nayzak.

    The above is also supported by the following verses which speak of the stars being the adornment of the heaven, being used for navigation, and being put at the service of mankind. All of them may be called nujoom and also kawaakib. These verses include the following:

    “and by the stars [bi’n-najm], they (mankind) guide themselves”

    [an-Nahl 16:16]

    “It is He Who has set the stars [an-nujoom] for you, so that you may guide your course with their help through the darkness of the land and the sea. We have (indeed) explained in detail Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, Revelations, etc.) for people who know”

    [al-An‘aam 6:97]

    “and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars [an-nujoom] subjected to His Command”

    [al-A‘raaf 7:54]

    “And He has subjected to you the night and the day, the sun and the moon; and the stars [an-nujoom] are subjected by His Command. Surely, in this are proofs for people who understand”

    [an-Nahl 16:12]

    “See you not that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars [an-nujoom], and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified. And whomsoever Allah disgraces, none can honour him. Verily! Allah does what He wills”

    [al-Hajj 22:18]

    “Then he cast a glance at the stars [an-nujoom]”

    [as-Saaffaat 37:88]

    “And in the night-time, also glorify His Praises, and at the setting of the stars [wa idbaar an-nujoom]”

    [at-Toor 52:49]

    “So I swear by Mawaqi (setting or the mansions, etc.) of the stars [an-nujoom] (they traverse)”

    [al-Waaqi‘ah 56:75]

    “Then when the stars [an-nujoom] lose their lights”

    [al-Mursalaat 77:8]

    “When the sun Kuwwirat (wound round and lost its light and is overthrown)

    And when the stars [an-nujoom] shall fall”

    [at-Takweer 81:1-2]

    “When the night covered him over with darkness he saw a star [kawkab]. He said: ‘This is my lord.’ But when it set, he said: ‘I like not those that set’”

    [al-An‘aam 6:76]

    “(Remember) when Yoosuf (Joseph) said to his father: ‘O my father! Verily, I saw (in a dream) eleven stars [kawkab] and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves to me’”

    [Yoosuf 12:4]

    “When the heaven is cleft asunder

    And when the stars [al-kawaakib] have fallen and scattered”

    [al-Infitaar 82:1,2].

    Thus it readily becomes clear to the reader of the Holy Quran that the Arabic language uses the word najm in a very comprehensive manner to refer to all kinds of heavenly bodies.

    We do not deny that there may be some differentiation between the words najm and kawkab among some linguists, but the criterion for differentiation is size or movement and other things, not the reason as known in modern times, which is whether the body in question emits light by itself or not.

    Similarly, the fact that there is a differentiation does not, under any circumstances whatsoever, mean that the words najm and kawkab cannot be used to refer to moving heavenly bodies.

    Al-‘Askari (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    Kawkab refers to big stars; the “kawkab” of a thing is most of it.

    Najm is a more general word that may refer to small or big stars.

    It may be said that the kawaakib are fixed heavenly bodies.

    The word najm also refers to that which rises and sets.

    Hence the astrologer is called munajjim in Arabic, because he looks at those that rise and set, and he is not called mukawkib.

    End quote from al-Furooq al-Lughawiyyah (p. 301)
  11. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member


    The correct way to describe the sun is that it “prostrates beneath the Throne” and not that it “sets in a spring of warm water”
    It is narrated by Abu Dawood in as-Sunan (3991) that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I was with the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), riding a donkey, and the sun was setting. He said: “Do you know where this (sun) goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It sets in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin hami’ah).” Is this hadeeth saheeh? If it is, then what does it mean? I have heard some non-Muslims using this to stir up doubts about Islam and cast aspersions on it.
    Published Date: 2014-08-04
    Praise be to Allah.

    The hadeeth of Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) which describes the place where the sun goes was narrated via Ibraaheem ibn Yazeed at-Taymi, from his father, from Abu Dharr, from the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him.

    It was narrated from Ibraaheem at-Taymi by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, al-A‘mash, Fudayl ibn Ghazwaan, Haroon ibn Sa‘d, and Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, as was stated by Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/926)

    They narrated it via two isnaads:

    The first isnaad:

    It was narrated by al-A‘mash, Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. In this report it says that the sun goes and prostrates beneath the Throne or before its Lord; there is no mention of a spring of warm water. It appears in several versions, of which we will mention one here:

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to Abu Dharr when the sun set: “Do you know where it goes?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it asks for permission (to rise) and permission is given to it. Soon it will prostrate, but it will not be accepted from it, and it will ask for permission (to rise) but permission will not be given to it; it will be said to it: “Go back to where you came from.’ So it will rise from its place of setting, and that is what Allah, may He be glorified, refers to in the verse (interpretation of the meaning): “And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing” [Yaa-Seen 36:38].

    It was narrated via A‘mash by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh (no. 3199, 4802 and 7424); Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); Abu Dawood at-Tayaalisi in al-Musnad (1/368); Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/282, 429); at-Tirmidhi in as-Sunan (no. 2186, 3227 – he said: It is hasan saheeh; an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/229); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan, 20/516); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zukhaar (9/409); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100-101); at-Tahhaawi in Sharh Mushkil al-Athaar (1/254); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/24); al-Qutay‘i in Juz’ al-Alf Dinar (p. 183); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Musnad al-Mustakhraj ‘ala Saheeh Muslim (1/222); al-Baghawi in at-Tafseer (4/14); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1192); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/924) and at-Tawheed (1/134, 135); Ibn Bashraan in al-Amaali (p. 159); al-Bayhaqi in al-Asma wa as-Sifaat (2/273); Ibn ‘Asaakir in al-Mu‘jam (2/1015); Abu Nu‘aym in Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216) and others.

    It was narrated via Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd by Imam Muslim in his Saheeh (no. 159); an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan al-Kubra (10/96); at-Tabari in Jaami‘ al-Bayaan (12/249); Abu ‘Awaanah in al-Mustakhraj (1/100); Abu al-‘Abbaas as-Siraaj in Hadeeth as-Siraaj (3/258); Ibn Hibbaan in his Saheeh (14/21); Abu ash-Shaykh in al-‘Azamah (4/1189); Ibn Mandah in al-Eemaan (2/925, 926) and in at-Tawheed (1/136); Abu Nu‘aym in al-Mustakhraj (1/221).

    It was narrated via Moosa ibn al-Musayyab by: Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1188);

    And via Haroon ibn Sa‘d by at-Tabaraani in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer (4/373); Abu ash-Shaykh al-Asbahaani in al-‘Azamah (4/1190).

    Abu Nu‘aym (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    This is a saheeh hadeeth on which they (the hadeeth scholars) are agreed, from the hadeeth of al-A‘mash from Sufyaan ath-Thawri and others. It was narrated from at-Taymi al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, Fudayl ibn ‘Umayr, Haaroon ibn Sa‘d, Moosa ibn al-Musayyab, Habeeb ibn Abi al-Ashras, and from Yoonus ibn ‘Umayd among the Basris.

    End quote from Hilyat al-Awliya’ (4/216)

    The second isnaad:

    It was narrated by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah only, from Ibraaheem at-Taymi; in this report it says that the sun sets in a spring of warm water.

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr said: I was riding behind the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) when he was on a donkey and the sun was setting. He said: “Do you know where this (sun) sets?” I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He said: “It sets in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).”

    Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad (35/363); Abu Dawood in as-Sunan (no. 4002); Hafs ad-Doori in Juz’ Qiraa’aat an-Nabi sall Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam (p. 123); al-Bazzaar in al-Bahr al-Zakhaar (9/407); as-Siraaj in his Hadeeth (3/258); al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak (2/267) – he said: This is a hadeeth with a saheeh isnaad, although they (al-Bukhaari and Muslim) did not narrate it. All of them narrated it via Yazeed ibn Haaroon, from Sufyaan ibn Husayn, from al-Hakam.

    Al-Bazzaar said: We do not know that anyone narrated it from al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah, from Ibraaheem, from his father, from Abu Dharr except Sufyaan ibn Husayn. Yoonus ibn ‘Ubayd narrated it from Ibraaheem at-Taymi, Sulayman al-A‘mash and Haroon ibn Sa‘d. End quote.


    From the above it is clear that the version of the hadeeth of Abu Dharr which is most likely to be correct is the first one, in which it says: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne”, in which it makes no mention of it setting “in a spring of warm water (innaha taghrubu fi ‘aynin haamiyah).” This is based on several factors:


    This wording is that on which the majority of narrators and those with the best memories agreed upon, in the report from Ibraaheem at-Taymi.


    The second version (“in a spring of warm water”) was narrated only by al-Hakam ibn ‘Utaybah from Ibraahem, and al-Hakam – although he was trustworthy – was described by an-Nasaa’i as mudallis [i.e., he used vague wording to give a wrong impression] in Dhikr al-Mudalliseen (no. 11). Ibn Hibbaan said: He used to engage in tadlees. End quote from ath-Thiqaat (4/144). None of those who narrated his hadeeth said that he clearly stated that he heard it from the previous narrator; rather they all said that his report included the word ‘an (from – instead of ‘I heard’, etc). Ibn Hajar mentioned him in Maraatib al-Mudalliseen in the second rank of mudalliseen (p. 30), who are the ones whose tadlees the imams (leading scholars) tolerated and from whom they narrated reports that they regarded as sound, because of their prominence and because they rarely engaged in tadlees compared to others, such as ath-Thawri; or (it was tolerated) because they did not use engage in tadlees except when narrating from a trustworthy source, such as Ibn ‘Uyaynah. The fact that this report is contrary to the report narrated by the trustworthy narrators confirms the possibility that tadlees occurred in this hadeeth in particular.


    The first version was narrated by both al-Bukhaari and Muslim, whereas the second version was not narrated by these two shaykhs. That is because they thought the first version was more likely to be correct than any other. Undoubtedly the reports in the books of al-Bukhaari and Muslim take precedence, according to the critics and scholars, than those in other books and Musnads.


    There is a great difference between the two versions. The first one describes the sun as prostrating beneath the Throne, whether at the time of sunset or at any other time, according to different versions of the hadeeth. Prostration beneath the Throne is a matter of the unseen, and no one knows how it is except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He, may He be glorified and exalted, has told us that all created things prostrate to Him, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “See you not that to Allah prostrates whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth, and the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees, and Ad-Dawab (moving living creatures, beasts, etc.), and many of mankind? But there are many (men) on whom the punishment is justified”

    [al-Hajj 22:18].

    No one knows how this prostration is or when it happens or its real nature except Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. Similarly, the hadeeth of Abu Dharr is no different from this verse at all, and there is nothing objectionable in it.

    Al-Khattaabi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    It cannot be denied that it halts beneath the Throne, in a manner that we cannot see or comprehend; rather this is speaking about a matter of the unseen. So we should not disbelieve in it or ask how it happens, because our knowledge cannot comprehend it.

    End quote from A‘laam al-Hadeeth Sharh Saheeh al-Bukhaari (p. 1893)

    With regard to the second version, “It sets in a spring of warm water”, this is problematic, because the setting of the sun occurs when its disc disappears below the horizon, and it sets on some people and rises on others because of the movement of the earth around it. So it is not possible that the sun, which is of immense size, could disappear into a spring of warm water. With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

    Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.

    End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

    To sum up: whoever casts aspersions on the Sunnah because of this wording is ignorant of the precision of the hadeeth scholars in examining different versions of the hadeeth and distinguishing between the reports which are proven and those which are not proven. The fact that some scholars regarded this report as saheeh is problematic; rather what they intended was to class as saheeh the basis of the hadeeth, not to suggest that this version is more correct than that which is proven in as-Saheehayn: “It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne.”

    In order to refute this specious argument, it is sufficient to note that the scholars of Islam were unanimously agreed that the earth is round and that all the celestial bodies are also round. It is on that basis that night and day alternate, because of the movements and rotation of these heavenly bodies. This is clear from many texts of the Qur’an and Sunnah.

    Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    The heavenly bodies are round, according to the Muslim scholars among the Sahaabah and those who followed them in guidance; that was also proven from them with isnaads mentioned in the appropriate places. In fact, more than one of the Muslim scholars narrated that there was consensus among the Muslims on that point.

    End quote from Minhaaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah (5/442)

    The Muslims were ahead of others in knowledge of astronomy; if the apparent meaning of this hadeeth contradicts that, then there would not have been consensus on the contrary; but the correct view is that the hadeeth does not contradict the scientific, astronomical facts.
  12. izz al-Din

    izz al-Din Well-Known Member

    Salam e masnun
    The following posts are from a najdi site:


    More than one of the scholars have narrated that there is consensus that the Earth is round. For example:

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) narrated that from Abu’l-Husayn ibn al-Munaadi (may Allah have mercy on him), when he said:

    Imam Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi narrated from the prominent scholars who are well known for knowledge of reports and major works in religious sciences, from the second level of Ahmad’s companions, that there was no difference of opinion among the scholars that the sky is like a ball.

    He said: Similarly they were unanimously agreed that the Earth, with all that is contains of land and sea is like a ball. He said: That is indicated by the fact that the sun, moon and stars do not rise and set over those who are in different parts of the earth at the same time; rather that occurs in the east before it occurs in the west.

    End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (25/195)

    He (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about two men who disputed about the nature of heaven and earth: were they both round bodies? One of them said that they were, but the other denied that and said there is no basis for that. What is the correct view?

    He replied:

    The heavens are round, according to the Muslim scholars. More than one of the scholars and Muslim leaders narrated that the Muslims are unanimously agreed on that, such as Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al-Munaadi, one of the leading figures among the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad, who wrote approximately four hundred books. Consensus on this point was also narrated by Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm and Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi. The scholars narrated that with well-known chains of narration (isnaads) from the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, and they quoted that from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger. They discussed that in detail with orally-transmitted evidence. There is also mathematical evidence to that effect, and I do not know of anyone among the well-known Muslim scholars who denied that, apart from a few of those who engaged in arguments who, when they debated with the astrologers denied it for the sake of argument and said: It may be square or hexagonal and so on. They did not deny that it could be round, but they said that the opposite of that was possible. I do not know of anyone who said that it is not round – with any certainty – apart from some ignorant people to whom no one pays any attention.

    End quote from Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (6/586)

    Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Evidence for the earth being round:

    Abu Muhammad said: We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round. They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round. … and he quoted evidence to that effect.

    End quote from al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)

    The evidence that the earth is round includes the following:

    Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”

    [az-Zumar 39:5].

    Ibn Hazm and others quoted this verse as evidence.

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views.

    The evidence of the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”

    [az-Zumar 39:5].

    The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round, because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.

    With regard to real-life evidence, this has been proven. If a man were to fly from Jeddah, for example, heading west, he would come back to Jeddah from the east, if he flew in a straight line. This is something concerning which no one differs.

    With regard to the words of the scholars, they stated that if a man died in the west at sunset, and another died in the west at sunset, and there was some distance between them, the one who died in the west at sunset would inherit from the one who died in the east at sunset, if he was one of his heirs. This indicates that the earth is round, because if the earth were flat, sunset in all regions would occur at the same time. Once this is established, no one can deny it. This is not contradicted by the verses in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?

    And at the heaven, how it is raised?

    And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?

    And at the earth, how it is spread out?”

    [al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20]

    Because the Earth is huge and its curvature cannot be seen from a short distance, it appears to be spread out and one cannot see anything that would make one fear living on it, but this does not contradict the fact that it is round, because it is very big. However they say that it is not evenly round; rather it is indented or pushed in at the north and south poles. Hence they say that it is egg-shaped.

    End quote from Fataawa Noor ‘ala ad-Darb

    Thus it is known that the Earth is round, and that is not contradicted by the fact that it is like an egg. Rather the false view is that which claims that it is flat, as the Church used to believe and for that reason used to curse and burn those scientists who said that it was round.

    See: al-‘Almaaniyyah: Nash’atuha wa Tatawwuruha (1/130)



    211655: Reconciling between the view that the Earth is round and the verse “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19]
    Could you please explain these Quranic verse. Actually one Non Muslim asked me to explain these verses.
    Quran 71:19 And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).
    Quran 78:6 Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse, What does it mean ?
    Quran 15:19 And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
    Does it mean that Earth is flat? Tafsir Jalalayn says that EARTH is flat. But it is against Established Science.


    The scholars are unanimously agreed that the earth is round, but to human eyes it appears to be flat, because it is very big and its roundness or curvature cannot be seen at close distances. So the one who stands and looks sees it as flat, but when viewed as a whole, in reality it is round.

    Ibn Hazm (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    The proofs of the Qur’an and Sunnah indicate that it is round. End quote.

    See also the answers to questions no. 201530 and 118698


    The verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And Allah has made for you the earth wide spread (an expanse)” [Nooh 71:19] indicates that it is spread out and shaped so that people can feel settled in it and be able to live and prosper in it. Ibn Katheer said:

    That is, He spread it out, prepared it, made it stable and made it firm by means of the mountains.

    Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/247

    Similarly, the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “Have We not made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6] means that it is spread out and prepared for you and for your benefit, so that you can cultivate it, build dwellings in it and travel through it.

    Ibn Katheer said:

    That is, it is prepared for people in such a way that they can live in it, and it is firm, stable and steady.

    Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 8/307

    And the verse (interpretation of the meaning) “And the earth We spread out, and placed therein firm mountains, and caused to grow therein all kinds of things in due proportion” [al-Hijr 15:19] means We spread it out and placed firm mountains therein. This is like the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And it is He Who spread out the earth, and placed therein firm mountains and rivers” [ar-Ra‘d 13:3].

    There is no contradiction between saying that it is round and saying that it was spread out, because in fact in its totality it is round, but to the one who stands on it and looks at it, it appears flat, as it appears to everyone.

    Ar-Raazi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    If it is said: Do the words “And the earth We spread out” indicate that it is flat?

    We would respond: Yes, because the earth, even though it is round, is an enormous sphere, and each little part of this enormous sphere, when it is looked at, appears to be flat. As that is the case, this will dispel what they mentioned of confusion. The evidence for that is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And the mountains as pegs” [an-Naba’ 78:7]. He called them awtaad (pegs) even though these mountains may have large flat surfaces. And the same is true in this case.

    End quote from Tafseer ar-Raazi, 19/131

    Shaykh ash-Shanqeeti (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

    If the scholars of Islam affirm that the earth is round, then what would they say about the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Do they not look at the camels, how they are created?

    And at the heaven, how it is raised?

    And at the mountains, how they are rooted and fixed firm?

    And at the earth, how it is spread out?”

    [al-Ghaashiyah 88:17-20].

    Their response will be the same as their response concerning the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86] – that is, as it appears to be in the eye of the beholder, because the sun sets on one country, but remains up in the sky for another, until it rises from the east on the following morning. So the earth looks flat in every region or part of it, because of its immense size.

    This does not contradict its real shape, because we may see a very high mountain, but if we climb it and reach its summit we may find a flat surface there, and find an entire nation living there, and some of the people there may not know anything about the rest of the world, and so on. End quote.

    Adwa’ al-Bayaan, 8/428

    Shaykh Rafee‘ ad-Deen ibn Waliyullah ad-Dahlawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his book at-Takmeel:

    Some may understand words such as “made the earth as a bed” [an-Naba’ 78:6], “He spread the earth” [an-Naazi‘aat 79:30] and “…how it is spread out…” [al-Ghaashiyah 88: 20] as meaning that it is flat, whereas the scholars affirm that it is round on the basis of sound evidence, so it is thought that there is a conflict. That may be refuted by the fact that the visible part of it (for a person standing on it) appears flat, because the larger a circle is, the more spread out it is, so we may say that it is flat on the basis of that part of it that is visible to us, and it is round in its totality, on the basis of rational thinking.

    Quoted from him by Siddeeq Hasan Khan in his tafseer, Fath al-Bayaan, 15/208
  13. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    وَالشَّمْسُ تَجْرِي لِمُسْتَقَرٍّ لَّهَا ۚ ذَٰلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ الْعَزِيزِ الْعَلِيمِ
    And the sun runs its course for its final destination; this is a command of the Almighty, the All Knowing. (Surah Ya-seen verse 38)

    لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ ۚ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ
    It is not for the sun to catch up with the moon, nor does the night surpass the day; and each one of them floats in its orbit. (Surah Ya-seen verse 40)

    I don't understand why people still insist that the earth is FLAT. When all other planets, the Sun and the moon are visibly spherical, is it so hard to believe that the earth is spherical too? This is notwithstanding the photographic and other scientific evidence already in place.
  14. Abu Darda

    Abu Darda New Member

    It is very interesting that you have stated 'towards its destination' as the flat earth theorists say the following:

    Why doesn't gravity pull the earth into a spherical shape?
    The earth isn't pulled into a sphere because the force known as gravity doesn't exist or at least exists in a greatly diminished form than is commonly taught. The earth is constantly accelerating up at a rate of 32 feet per second squared (or 9.8 meters per second squared). This constant acceleration causes what you think of as gravity. Imagine sitting in a car that never stops speeding up. You will be forever pushed into your seat. The earth works much the same way. It is constantly accelerating upwards being pushed by a universal accelerator (UA) known as dark energy or aetheric wind.

    There are also other theories of flat earth thought that maintain that the earth sits on an infinite plane, with the sun moving overhead. Gravity works much like it does in a round-earth model, and the earth will never form into a sphere because the plane is endless.

    The earth being PUSHED by dark energy, up to a 'destination'? Fascinating
  15. Moriarty

    Moriarty Veteran

    Hamza Yusuf gives credibility to the geo centric model. He says the Mauritanian scholars he studies with held this view. Reason I mention is that those who have an inferiority regarding Ala Hazrat usually end up accepting this view as valid if Hamza said it.

  16. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    Is this a Qat'i Aqeedah?
    Rotation of sun around the earth
    Rotation of earth itself

    Ala Hazrat said it does not rotate. And sun rotates around it.
  17. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    the links given below are not working, can you upload these books to archive/dropbox etc and share the link please?
    Mohd Farhan Ali likes this.
  18. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    scientists are turning their own models on their heads. very interesting read - and a slap in the face of atheists.

  19. @ brother Abdul Mustafa and brother Aqib. Jazaak Allahu Khairan

    Very great. I downloaded both the books. Yes regarding the orbit of the sun, it is quite clearly established that it is not the stationary, but moving. And it does have an orbit.
  20. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    yes, science has proven that the sun is moving (in a somewhat straight line). the qur'an says in multiple places that the sun is moving "in its orbit" and also says "towards its destination"

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