Shahid Ali continues public spat with Shaykh Asrar

Discussion in 'Refutation' started by shahnawazgm, Feb 6, 2022.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    anyone who is not brave enough to call out sh.asrar as a sulh-kulli should also be a sulh-kulli.

    sunnis in the UK should begin to fire messages and tag posts of all the prominent sunni ulama active on social media and resolve this issue once and for all. many of us who have a good opinion of shaykh asrar will also get a clarification if we are indeed right to side with shaykh asrar or whether he indeed has issues that we are not aware of?

    1. is sh. asrar rashid a sunni or not? if he is not a sunni, then why not (please provide proof)?

    2. do YOU consider sh. asrar rashid a sulh-kulli? if you do so, what are the reasons?

    3. if YOU do not consider sh. asrar rashid a sulh-kulli, then what is the ruling upon a person who defames sh. asrar rashid as a sulh-kulli or insinuates that he is one?

    4. have you seen or heard any authentic information about sh. asrar rashid that contradicts sunni belief or which makes you consider him a deviant? if so, can you declare him a deviant (with proofs)?

    5. have you heard of mufti shahid ali and his videos? and do you agree with him?

    please issue a written fatwa on this at the earliest to nip the fitna in the bud.

    on my part, in'sha'Allah, i will read any fatwa that comes out - and they better do multiple reviews to make sure their reasoning and citation is correct, because i am so fed up with this witch-hunting, that i am in no mood to spare the tiniest inaccuracy that may come to my notice.

    wAllahu'l musta'an.
    B Zayd, Surati, Ahmet Tayfur and 5 others like this.
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Hear! Hear! If there are ulama behind Mawlana Shahid Ali, they need to come forward. Tell us why Shaykh Asrar is deviated or whatever. Sorry, but this is cowardice.
  3. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    Mufti Zahid Rizwi as well. Would like to hear his opinion too
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    The people of Makkah know about its inhabitants better than outsiders.

    If outside ulama are asked for edicts, they need to contact ulama of the UK such as,

    Mufti Shams
    Mufti Aslam
    Mawlana Naveed Jameel
    Mawlana Ibrar Shafi
    Mufti Munawwar Ateeq

    And find out from them if Shaykh Asrar is Sunni.

    In fact, the istifta should be sent to these ulama. Why is it going abroad? That already proves an agenda.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2022
  5. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    my comment was on the general trend. I don't know how it was worded in the lecture - since it got removed before I could watch it fully.

    If the awaaam is swinging to either extreme - ulama need to step in and, if they see the need for it, they can use the principle of sadd al-dharayi. As has been done in the past.

    wa Allahu a'alam
  6. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    1. Whilst Imam Shahid is upset at being called an imbecile, I would rather be called an imbecile than someone try and take away my sunni status especially if I had been the sole English speaking voice talking about the kufr of the deo's for years, etc.

    2. Imam Shahid is lucky that so far, Sh. Asrar hasn't tried to put him on the backfoot by making a video of his links with JTI, etc. I sincerely hope Sh. Asrar never does so as this would just turn it into a tit for tat- but the fact he is largely ignoring the issue lets Imam Shahid get away with ignoring the types of concerns posted on this forum.

    3. Mufti Aslam made a video where he said that anyone who disagrees with the fatwa against Irfan Shah needs to renew his imaan, etc. What does that say about JTI then, the organisation employing Imam Shahid?

    4. Imam Shahid was in the presence of zain ul aqtab but didn't refute him- according to his own principles, he is sulh kulli.

    5. Mufti Aslam has never publicly repented for inviting zain to the dastar bandi- apparently privately accepting your mistake isn't good enough so where is Mufti Aslam's public repentance at? Same rules apply, no?

    6. Although the MMA answer was ridiculous, a clarification that it is indeed haram was provided on this very forum in a thread that was read by Imam Shahid. Why keep bringing it up?

    7. Sh. Asrar does not allow prayer behind the deviants so why keep making this claim- he's already said it is not allowed. He just gave a 'nuanced' answer (which he definitely did NOT need to give and was certainly confusing for some, it appears) but he didn't say hanafi's allow it, etc etc.
    Aqdas likes this.
  7. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    I think, and I could be wrong, very many sunnis, and for that matters deos, don't know or understand the actual aqidah explained by the real scholars of ahlus sunnah- that being occasionalism (in English). How many people actually believe that a knife does not create the cutting, or water does not quench the thirst, or fire does not create the burning , but that Allah creates each and every event that takes place? Sure they do believe everything is in Allah's hands, but many have this mistaken belief that somehow water and fire, and so on, do have some sort of ataai powers.
    Sharani and Khanah like this.
  8. Sharani

    Sharani New Member

    Some people, although a very small minority, do believe this.
    Why does this even matter anymore? Didn't he already retract and apologise. Also i understand your objection but isn't that already obvious based on his previous speeches against the deobandis and his clarification that he affirms husām etc.
  9. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    I’m more interested to know who are the Ulama and scholars who are behind him and supporting him against Shaykh Asrar like he mentions in his last video.

    Never seen, never heard.
  10. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    You've become sulh kulli. Do public tawbah and retract this. A clarification isn't enough. You have to say this initial line was wrong.
    Ghulam Ali and AbdalQadir like this.
  11. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    I agree 100% and we should speak up about it. However, I don't believe sadd al-dharai’i on the Ya Gauth issue will make the situation any better(could lead to mindless accusations by the awaam).
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Reminds me of the profoundly shameless Darus Salam editor/ceo abdul malik mujahid i came across on the wahabi paigham tv (see the link how hard they're trying to appeal to our kinda people)

    I felt nauseated listening to his one talk where this guy pretty much said he's more Ibn Kathir than Ibn Kathir himself. He was talking about his abridged tafsir of Ibn Kathir where he says he removed the unsound content that Ibn Kathir himself would leave out and only shaved it down to the most authentic content of the tafsir (something along those lines, don't take my paraphrasing as a verbatim quote)

    Or the ahbash who allege that Busiri committed a mistake in the Burdah and still shamelessly sing it, or allege Al-Ghazali and Suyuti committed some blunders somewhere. We too have many such mahfooz super Sunnis, who can be more Ala Hazrat than Ala Hazrat himself or more Ghazali than Ghazali himself.

    Akmal Qadri is an eyesore for many many tanatan people.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    however, this facebook link mentions about the 'challenge'.

    apparently it is posted on sh.asrar's page (please confirm - am not active on FB. recently i have created an account, but i am not a frequent FB user) - in which case it WAS a challenge.

    and sh. asrar also accepted the 'challenge'.

    anyway, "come here - go there" is a secondary issue. but if people get bogged down on such small things, such debates would be useless even. "you are not wearing an imamah and i am wearing an imamah. i follow the sunnah and you don't" ...that kind.

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
  14. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    and yet brother, considering the fact that aastaanas are full while masajid are empty (expect on Fridays), mujaawars are millionaires while Imams are paupers - the situation speaks for itself.

    Many people are successfully duped into wahabism because of this sad state of affairs among the juhala, whose veneration for saints and mazars almost borders on superstition.

    The awaam needs to be reprimanded, reminded and returned to the manhaj of the asalaaf.

    Time to up the ante on this subject.
    Ghulam Ali, Khanah and Sharani like this.
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    You beat me to it. A passing comment in a casual conversation with a third person is suddenly a blatant declaration of war... Asrar didn't even address Shahid directly he was talking to Qasim Zia, nor did Asrar call out Shahid's name, i believe he only mentioned a 'bradford ka admi'

    ... and this guy comes along as the Zorro of uk Sunnis.
  16. Hassan_0123

    Hassan_0123 HhhhhhhM_786

    Fair enough but can you see how the Awaam should be stopped from using these wordings? It could potentially lead to shirk hence the sadd al-dharai’i
  17. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    is this the 'challenge' of munazarah?

    shaykh asrar said: "let him come and meet me. if he wants to do munazarah, let him do that even.."

    this is not a challenge of munazarah in the sense maulvi shahid claims - and maulvi shahid should stop putting words in other people's mouth. based on the above statement - said between the lines - shahid ali crafted a 'munazarah challenge'.

    it would be a 'challenge' ONLY if shaykh asrar directly addressed him or issued a statement (on his social media accounts) or whatever and MENTIONED the topic on which he wants to do munazarah.

    shaykh asrar is defending himself here.

    what our intrepid champion has done:

    1. crafted a 'munazarah challenge' from a casual talk.

    2. ignored the words: "let him come to me and talk to me" and to avoid going to sh.asrar's place he dug up some old munazarah-related sound bites of shaykh asrar and said that sh.asrar should come to him because apparently sh. asrar challenged him for a munazrah.

    true, if shaykh asrar WAS the challenger on some topic. you cannot ignore the context - shaykh asrar is a DEFENDANT in this case. maulvi shahid IS the challenger. including the topics that he wants clarification on are objections to shaykh asrar and not the other way round.

    who fired the first salvo? who wanted answers? who STILL wants answers?

    yet shaykh asrar is the challenger? sub'HanAllah! why can't people think? trust me, i listened to the mufti qasim and sh.asrar talk ONLY ONCE* and that too doing some chore (or probably driving). and i had the context in mind. i asked the question above just to confirm that it was not some other occasion or some facebook post where sh. asrar might have truly challenged him.

    everyone is running behind shahid's claim that sh.asrar challenged him for a munazarah.

    * and then repeated it now to confirm whether i have heard it correctly.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  18. Shadman

    Shadman Active Member

    I think it's safe to say "no one believes in this".
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    in exactly the way shaykh asrar and prior to him allamah sharaf mentioned. and i am witness to this myself.

    some sunnis say "yaa ghawth paak" in a masjid and do that so often without ever saying "ya Allah" - and so much that a few individuals only say this and you don't hear them say 'ya Allah' or ya Kareem or any other name of Allah ta'ala.

    i suggest you read the book of allamah sharaf which i have uploaded in another thread.
  20. Hassan_0123

    Hassan_0123 HhhhhhhM_786

    An example would be when *some* people say, "Ya Fulan, grant me a child"... this wording is not shirk itself per se but this wording is the exact wording Shaykh Asrar and Imam Yusuf Al-Nabhani warn against because it could definitely lead to shirk depending on what the person believes or it could definitely be confused as shirk from an onlooker but it all depends on the intention/belief of the one who said it.

    If the person believes that the Wali he is calling out to will grant him a child independently of Allah, this is shirk 100% but a vast majority of people don't believe this but again this wording should definitely be avoided and Allah should be called out to in matters in which He can only grant.

    When these people do ask a Wali to grant them a child, I sssume their intention is

    A) They're asking that Wali BUT with the belief that Allah is the one who will give them a child
    B) They're asking that Wali because of his closeness to Allah عز و جل this will be like Tawwasul

    But in the latter even Imam Yusuf Al-Nabhani writes that there is no guarantee that this Wali has Tassaruf after his death or even more damning for the Awaam is that they consider the person they're calling out to, to be a Wali but in reality he hasn't attained the rank of Wilayah.

    This is the sadd al-dharai’i Shaykh Asrar was warning against or he was warning against those people who call on Ghous E Azam in every single matter.

    I'm sure Abu Hasan could expand on this more but this is what I've understood from Imam Yusuf Al-Nabhani's words.
    Khanah likes this.

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