fatawa against tahir jhangvi

Discussion in 'Miscellany' started by snaqshi, Nov 17, 2014.

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  1. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran


    brother, this is a matter of deen, not personal views or self-made principles. so let us stick to what the Shariah instructs.

    I am not belittling the achievements of DI or SDI, but this is a sticky point.

    Anyway, the fatwa in question has been discussed at length on this forum before, HERE:
  2. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    If they choose to take such a stance that is their choice, what gives us the right to beat them up about it? They might have some valid reason (in their own thinking and logic) to take such a stance or position. Maybe you should ask the dar ul Ifta' (دارُ الافتاء اہلسنّت) the reasons why they came to such a decision?

    End of the day you may not agree with their position or anyone else, that is your choice you can follow them or not, if you don't like what they are saying or position they take then leave them go find another shaykh to follow who according to your own mentality and judgement is better for your or is (in your opinion) following the spirit of Islam more closely.

    I have a Madina tul Ilm centre down the road from me but i do not attend because i Have issue 2 issues with them, their are personal issue with their tanzeem, but I am not going to beat them up about them end of the day they are sunni brothers/sisters. In my area they have done a good job in gathering the children who where going to the deobandi mudarsay.

    So lets put it into perspective: the deobandi centre withing 5 years have produced 78 hafiz ul Qur'an and in 35 years the 5 sunni masaajid have produced 4 hafiz. 3 years ago the deobandi mudarsay had 1200 children on their roll and 600 children on waiting list (2 deobandi centres), thats how inept the sunni masaajid in my area have been in providing tadrees. Since the Madina tul Ilm centre has opened (2 years) they have between 600-800 children (plus a very healthy waiting list).

    When this point was brought up with the committees of the sunni masaajid the replies ranged from, "we will think about it, the masjid is for salah, eid prays and jumm3a and the absolutely astonishing comment of "assa hadeeth sheeth ko ko'ee zaroorat nehi hayn bass bachay ko qur'an sukhaatyan hayn" [sorry my urdu is not very good, but something to that effect]"

    Whatever my personal gripe is with them at least they are doing a good keeping sunniyat alive in my area!!!
    Some wise person one said, "when you point 1 finger, 3 fingers point at you.....!"
  3. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
  4. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    that is why I said "their principle".

    and "their principle" was the prime reason of the split in Mumbai, leading to the creation of "Sunni" DI.
  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    what principle?

    if dawate islami claim to have a darul iftaa, they should be bold enough to issue fatwa that refutes open kufr like tahir's antics. or else, they will be viewed with caution as an organisation that is more concerned about political correctness rather than the zeal to speak the truth; and demonstrate courage to throw everything to the winds and take a stand on Haqq.

    if i meet mawlana ilyas qadri sahib, i will certainly mention this issue.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
  6. chisti-raza

    chisti-raza Veteran

    I can confirm this.
  7. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    Since you liked the point about Daruriyaat e Deen, what is the need to ask DI any more?

    PS: They were asked, but as per their principle - they did not give a direct clear refutation.
  8. Ridawi78692

    Ridawi78692 Hanafi Maturidi Qadri

    Brother haq bahu, one problems with us sunnis is when we start granting titles for free. When has farshwi sahib become a mufti?
    The other ones alhamdulilah have been known to teach, author and so on, but farashwi sahib has never been reffrenced as a mufti ever previously.
  9. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    It would be good if the Mufti's of UK would be asked these questions.
    So at least their stances would be clear.
    And I'm not talking about dodgy personalities. But people like:

    Mufti Ansar ul-Qadri,
    Mufti Ashfaq Rizvi,
    Mufti Shams ul-Huda,
    Mufti Aslam Bandyalvi,
    Mufti Zafar Mahmood Farashwi,
    Mufti Monawwar Ateeq,
    Mufti Zahid Hussain
    and other Sunni Mufti's.
  10. Ridawi78692

    Ridawi78692 Hanafi Maturidi Qadri

    Thats a great point, and some ignorant mureeds need to know that.
  11. Ridawi78692

    Ridawi78692 Hanafi Maturidi Qadri

    Im gonna ask darulifta what the present fatwa is soon.
  12. Musafir

    Musafir Active Member

    Daruriyat e Deen are not matters that require a murshid or a mufti. They are matters which no two Muslims, layman or alim, pir or mureed can differ over or be ignorant of.
    Haqbahu and Ridawi78692 like this.
  13. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    again, it's not rocket science


    Background: Zayd claims to be an Islamic scholar. He organises an event advertised as an interfaith gathering contains “Muhammad – the Merciful” boldly in the title. In this event performers and leaders of various religions are invited and allowed to conduct their religious prayers, chants and rituals. In one item, Zayd asks members of
    various faiths to stand in a line and expressly tells them to proclaim the name of ‘their’ own god in their own traditions. The audience, including Muslims cheers and claps at all these chants.
    • Hindus sing bhajans, among which are Hare Ram, Hare Krishna, Om Namah Shivayah etc.
    • Sikhs sing their kirtans
    • Christians say ‘Father God’
    • Buddhists say: Namo Budhdhaya
    • And Muslims say: La Ilaha Illa Allah.

    Thereafter, people criticize Zayd for this irreligious act. Zayd justifies his actions and says:
    1. This act is not just bidáh hasanah, but rather a sunnah.
    2. The Prophet allowed Najran Christians to stay in the Mosque, and when the time of their prayer
    arrived, they asked his permission to pray and he gave them permission and said: “You are allowed to pray according to your tradition, in my Mosque.”
    3. Zayd says that the Prophet declared in the Constitution of Madinah that Jews and Muslims are one nation.
    4. Zayd acknowledges that he asked disbelievers to pray and claims that prayer is not worship item.
    5. Zayd says: this is the demonstration of freedom of religion and expression given by Almighty God and Prophet .

    Concerning Zayd’s justification, we ask respected Muftis to please eludicidate and issue a ruling concerning:
    1. hold a gathering, invite people of various faiths to utter unislamic and polytheistic chants?
    2. to tell people of other faiths to call upon their god (or what they consider as god) in their own tradition?
    3. to ask/encourage people of other faiths to pray to whatever they consider as gods in their own tradition?
    4. to join in a multi-faith prayer with disbelievers with the intention that ‘let each of us call our own god’?
    5. to term this action as a Sunnah of the Prophet ?
    6. Was RasulAllah ever asked, and did he ever give express permission to Christians to pray in their own tradition, in his Mosque?
    Brother Barry and Ridawi78692 like this.
  14. Musafir

    Musafir Active Member

    Mufti Waqar ud Deen's Fatwa was at the particular time he was asked.

    Dawate Islami's Dar ul Ifta should be asked concerning padri's current state.

    The honourable personalities of Mufti Akhtar Raza and Muhaddise Kabeer are not the only ones to have issued a fatwa of takfeer and numerous ulama have endorsed these fatawa - do a search in the forum for names - such fatwas have not been issued by the akabir except when the matter has become clear - note how many years of his open gumrahi wembley etc invitatio ns to debate etc before these fatawa

    Once the tahqiqi ulama have spoken what room is there for laymen to waiver. Laymen cannot give fatwas of takfeer but they must affirm that going against a matter of daruriyat e deen is kufr.
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

  16. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    doesn't anyone find the above statements problematic? I simply fail to see the validity of this interpretation of sulook *in the present context*.
    AbdalQadir, Haqbahu and Aqdas like this.
  17. Aqib alQadri

    Aqib alQadri Veteran

    the status of Tahir Jhangvi:

    before Christmas celebrations (since 2003) and Wembley: deviant, non-Sunni, deviant, heretic etc

    after Christmas celebrations (since 2003) and Wembley: open murtad. no doubt - just like qadiyaani
    Aqdas and AbdalQadir like this.
  18. Ridawi78692

    Ridawi78692 Hanafi Maturidi Qadri

    No brother aqdas, mufti e azam passed away time ago.
    Brother Barry likes this.
  19. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    was this after Wembley?
    Brother Barry likes this.
  20. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    From my understanding DI take a lot of fataway from Hadret Mufti Waqaruddin (may Allah bless him), but like I said brother chisti-raza has rightly stated there are a lot of fatawa's surround Dr Padri sahib ranging from him being ahlul biddah, gummrah to the other extreme, if you follow DI, and you have bayah in tariqah with Hadret Ilyas Qadiri, then it is better and more advised for you to follow the hukm (instructions) of your shaykh. If your shaykh declares him to be ghumrah then that is the command you should follow as a loyal mureed, as he is your teacher (murshid) on the path (sulook).

    There are differences of opinion on this matter and no one opinion is greater then another except when it is command by your shaykh.

    Allah knows best
    Ridawi78692 likes this.

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