Manc Uni Staff: Poison Reply

Discussion in 'Smalltalk' started by Ibrahim, Nov 16, 2021.

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  1. Nizam1325

    Nizam1325 New Member

  2. Nizam1325

    Nizam1325 New Member

    These were the versions of these texts I found in English. I do not know anything about how accurate they are or if these publishers added/removed things to the original for benefit or otherwise and thus cannot endorse every publisher/translator here. Someone more knowledgeable could perhaps indicate which of these translations are more reliable based on the translator's/publisher's track record:

    Thank you for that list Mawlana
    Unbeknown likes this.
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    saqib shami wanted to make music mainstream. they were not mere fiqh issues, but opening the door to fitnah.

    thanks for the compliment. even though i disagree with sh. asrar on many counts, i still respect him as a sunni scholar. this special privilege is 'earned'.

    your analogy needs a tweak. in that case i was trying to throw the person overboard who was trying to drill a hole in the ship. saqib wanted to establish music as mainstream - and we refuted it. saqib is a modern peer who wants to make celebrity lifestyle mainstream. you may love it, but i detest it.

    it appears you are friends with shahid sahib and i want to know the benefits of refuting sh.asrar on this poison issue. don't give me the silly stories of how people will set up poison-joints and how people will gift each other poison during eid if you won't refute sh. asrar.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
    Abdullah Ahmed, Surati and Unbeknown like this.
  4. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Problem with many people is, they don't read. I mean read read. A bit like the difference between hearing and listening. Many people hear something but aren't listening.

    Did you completely miss aH's post yesterday on this very thread about the ship?

    Have you forgotten his posts congratulating Mawlana Shahid for apologising?

    Do you remember SunniPort deleting the thread about Mawlana Shahid as soon as he apologised?

    Have you forgotten how many times Shaykh Asrar has been refuted here on other issues?

    It's actually you who carries the bias and your campaign against Shaykh Asrar has taken any objectivity out of you, if you had any to begin with.

    Go read aH's post again from yesterday. Shaykh Asrar makes mistakes. We don't agree with him on many things. But stop treating him like a deviant. The poison issue is a bygone. You don't know when to let things go.
    hasan likes this.
  5. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    There will always be some holier-than-thou people who lack insight, love to provoke and thrive on controversy. Do they even see beyond their blinders? Incredible.
    Let. It. Go.
    This is not the time.

    Learn to choose your battles. Not everything is to be dealt with in the same way. Applying some wisdom wouldn’t hurt, would it?

    Shaykh Asrar has been criticised on here before. Moreover, AH is not at anybody’s beck and call.

    @Sunnisoldier if you (or the people on Twitter) are so alarmed and concerned by Shaykh Asrar and have a burning desire for him to be refuted, why not do it yourselves?

    Why complain that AH is not sinking the ship? Go ahead. Nobody is stopping you.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
    Unbeknown likes this.
  6. Sunnisoldier

    Sunnisoldier Active Member

    Was reading a thread on twitter yesterday and they were commenting that Shaykh Asrar seems to have special privilege amongst the barelwis and on sunniport.

    They said everytime that he has about to get discussed he is protected and defended beyond normal measures and this is never the case with other scholars. Also threads get locked when he is discussed whereas it is open season with everyone else.

    Abu Hasan you have vehemently attacked the likes of Pir Saqib multiple times over Fiqh issues and made comments which many would believe were uncalled for. Its strange that you didn't see the drill and the ship then.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    there is another way to know about this. when one has finished reading the following books, there is a possibility that they will be able to identify beneficial issues:

    • al-faqih wa'l mutafaqqih - khatib
    • jamiy bayan al-ilm - ibn abd al-Barr
    • aadaab al-ishrah - ghazzi
    • aadab al-aalim wa'l muta'allim - nawawi
    • aadab al-suluk - alawi al-haddad
    • adab al-mufti wa'l mustafti - ibn Salah
    • akhlaq ahl al-quran - aajuriyy
    • akhlaq al-ulama - aajuriyy
    • ayyuha'l walad - ghazali
    • bidayatu'l hidayah - ghazali
    • bustan al-arifin - nawawi
    • fadl ilm al-salaf - ibn rajab
    • ianah al-mutawajjih al-miskin - zarruq
    • ta'alim al-muta'allim - zarnuji
    • tazkiratu's samiy - ibn jama'ah
    • unwan al-tawfiq - ibn ata'illah
    • kitab al-uzlah - khattabi
    • uyub al-nafs - sullami
    • zaghl al-ilm - dhahabi
    • mukhtasar shu'ab al-iman - qazwini
    • sharh of maa dhiy'baan jaa'yiyaan - ibn rajab
    • safinatu'n najaa - zarruq
    • taj al-arus - ibn ata'illah
    • iqaz al-himam sh. hikam - ibn ajibah
    • al-tadhkirah - qurtubi
    • al-fat'h al-rabbani - ghawth aazam
    • al-arbayin fi usul al-din - ghazali
    • adab al-muridin - abu'n najib suhrawardi
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    first of all beginners should not get involved in discussions of controversial topics; in other words, they should not bother about issues outside beginner books.

    it is a sad reality of our age that everyone wants to share their opinion - with or without knowledge, people want to give their 2p.


    if you are convinced that the poison issue is of great importance to muslims and sunnis, you can spend your days and nights trying to prove sh. asrar wrong or expound on how he has committed the greatest betrayal in the history of islam.

    how many of you have read bidayatu'l hidayah of imam ghazali?

    check this excerpt and ask yourselves where you stand:

    nas'alu Allah al-aafiyah.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
    Unbeknown likes this.
  9. Nizam1325

    Nizam1325 New Member

    How does a beginner better understand which issues are beneficial to discuss and which ones are not?
  10. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    it is really contingent to what time of day it is, weather conditions, what angle the light is falling from, and what angle it is being observed from. past sunset, it might even appear grey, or silverish on a full moon night. no need for anyone to insist anything as i see it. enjoy the sail together, and face the storm together. :)
    Unbeknown likes this.
  11. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i don't know why so-called sunnis are obsessed with this issue. sensational lines do not always stand up to scrutiny - and i ask you to give me 12 problems that may arise from opening this 'pandora's box'. go ahead, i am waiting.

    shaykh asrar has already clarified on this forum that it is haram to drink poison and whatever was done was in the context of a debate. i have said it earlier that it could have happened on the spur of the moment and his action could be excused as an impulsive one. it was not a license to drink poison while hanging out with friends. "hey bro! care for a poison swig?"

    our intrepid students of fiqh are beating a photograph of a dead horse hanging on a brick wall will baseball bats and crowbars - in the irrational fear that it will spring to life and suck out their souls.

    get over it folks. even if it was an ill-advised move by sh. asrar, there is no reason to keep lamenting about a speck of dust on an otherwise delicious cake. the fact remains that shaykh asrar has contributed to the sunni discourse for many years and even though we disagree with him on some issues, we are still in the same boat.

    only fools (on the boat) will attempt to drill a hole on the side sh.asrar is sitting - hoping to see him drown. if there are others shooting at our boat, it becomes our collective responsibility to protect our boat. though i do not like it, sh. asrar also keeps insisting: "i will not call this a green ship. this is a bluish ship". yet, this 'difference of opinion' is not the same as drilling a hole on his side of the boat.

    come to your senses brothers.

    i am fed up with people discussing this issue which is of no benefit to anyone. no matter, how much you wish to present it as a major fiqh problem, it will never be one. anyone who thinks so has no clue of the depth and breadth of islamic fiqh.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  12. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    Would drinking poison and claiming that I drank to a level that wouldn't harm not be similar to drinking alcohol and claiming that I drank to a level that would not get me me drunk.

    Opens up a Pandora's box in Fiqh and halal and haram rulings
  13. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    you live and learn.

    Hopefully Shaykh Asrar doesn’t get banned from doing talks at the Uni or from any other Unis cause that will be a real shame given that the Atheism topic is quite relevant.
  14. Sunnisoldier

    Sunnisoldier Active Member

    Back then I was supporting Shaykh Asrar and saying that it was a true act of faith but thinking about it now this is causing major issues with Muslims and Non Muslims. Maybe it was better to never have pulled out the poison in the first place and called her out. Madinah society are obviously going to be in jeapordy now it has been reported to the uni.

    If the poison was not strong enough to hospitalise or bring harm to Shaykh Asrar then the danger of that is the woman could have drank it and claimed a miracle if she too was unharmed.

    In hindsight, an unwise move that is gaining a lot of negative publicity now.
  15. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    nothing much wrt the uni itself.
    He could show that he has put this behind him (applies to both parties) by extending his support in other ways, like sharing useful works that he has done, etc.
  16. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    What exactly can Shahid Ali do if the university is now investigating it? The society that organized is obviously going to be in some major issues for breaching public liability rules. I would not be surprised if they ban Shaykh Asrar too.
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Someone ask this martin blake did he give explicit permission to the recipient of that email to make his communication public?

    It's obvious the guy thinks of himself as a smart character and has kept his own name confidential while publicizing this martin's email.
  18. Surati

    Surati Well-Known Member

    This is serious. This issue was dead long ago until Imam Shahid brought it up again. As far as I can remember aH spoke against it on here.

    It could be anyone that sent this email, however, I hope that Imam Shahid does not just sit back comfortably and enjoy the show but instead follows up on his apology by making true amends and helping to mitigate the damage he has caused.
    Ahmet Tayfur likes this.
  19. Ibrahim

    Ibrahim New Member

    I am guessing it has been brought to the attention of the university because Shahid Ali's video hinted towards it being a criminal case to make someone drink poison.

    The complainant probably took a hint from that video and decided to report it to Manchester University. We have to remember that the original poison drinking video has done outrageous rounds across the UK and beyond. The video has millions of views on Youtube and attracted enormous attention from all people and all religions.

    The claims by Shahid Ali that it was fake have also garnered a lot of attention and have got a lot of people speaking. Bilal ibn Asif's comment about a poison drinking competition/meeting between Mawlana Shahid Ali and Shaykh Asrar Rashid also did not do anyone any favours.

    This issue is getting more and more messier.
  20. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    It surfaced now, all of a sudden...? It's just a Shaykh Asrar hater who doesn't see the bigger picture. A sad man.

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