Ruling on Mortgages in UK?

Discussion in 'Other Mad'habs' started by Adham12, Apr 7, 2020.

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  1. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Read post no. 15. Even I'm trying to understand it properly.
     
  2. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Please refrain from allegations towards the noble imams without any solid references. As mentioned before getting interest (again this is not riba) from them is permitted in darul harb however selling pork or alcohol has never been permitted by any of the noble imams.

    Sunan Ibn-I-Majah Volume 3, Book of Intoxicants, Chapter 30 Hadith No. 3380 "Allah's curse falls on ten groups of people who deal with alcohol. The one who distills it, the one for whom it has been distilled, the one who drinks it, the one who transports it, the one to who it has been brought, the one whom serves it, the one who sells it, the one who utilizes money from it, the one who buys it and the one who buys it for someone else."

    From what I see here is that someone is using their own limited qiyas without any qualifications whatsoever in trying to validate selling alcohol and pork in their grocery store by trying to equate it to the hadith of no interest between a Muslim and a Harbi Kaafir in Darul Harb!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2016
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  3. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Islamic scholars who consider a non-Muslim country as Dar al-Harb (house of war) state various views on the relationships between the Muslims and non-Muslims living in a non-Muslim country.

    Imam Azam Abu Hanifa and Imam Muhammad states that it is ok for a Muslim living in a non-Muslim country to get interest from non-Muslims, to sell drink and pork to non-Muslims and even to gamble with them if it is certain to win; since these acts are legal for the non-Muslims, and Muslims’ benefiting from these acts can be considered as some kind of ganimah (treasure won in war).
     
  4. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

    Where does it say that the ruling concerning alcohol is only for dar ul islam br. umar?

    (not followed the whole thread, please link to post number)
     
  5. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    Not sure what you're trying to say there. Hindustan is not darul harb, but at the same time taking excess money from non muslims there is allowed because they are considered harbi.
     
  6. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

    Is it true that it is obligatory for a Muslim to leave a land that is Dar-al-Harb as soon as possible?
    If yes, then we should accept that ruling also when considering UK as Dar-al-Harb.
     
  7. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    But thats talking about Dar al Islam whilst we are discussing in Dar al Harb.
     
  8. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    See this link, page 223 http://www.fikreraza.org/books/books/bahaare-shariat-vol16[1].pdf (Bahaare Shariat Vol 16 English translation). The sale where a Muslim sells alcohol is impermissible in general and the money earned is also impermissible. The question was for whether a payment of debt to a Muslim by a Kafir who made his money from selling alcohol is permissible or not.

    Imam Nawawi (RA) explicitly mentions in his commentary about the hadith against alcohol that it is haraam whether sold to a Muslim or a kafir (Al Majmu).

    I don't know what comes next now, will working as a bartender in a pub be permissible as long as you are serving to a kafir?
     
  9. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Yes, this is why I found it weird but it seems in Hanafi madhab the scholars have allowed taking part in corrupt contracts with Kuffar in dar al harb which includes selling alcohol, pork etc.:

    http://eng.dar-alifta.org/foreign/ViewFatwa.aspx?ID=10761&text=corrupt contracts

    Does anyone know what senior ulama like Tajusharia have to say on this matter?
     
  10. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I am not questioning mortgages in which case there are two opinions for Muslims living in non-Muslim countries. I explicitly stated alcohol which is totally forbidden.

    Abu Dawood - 3674
    Ibn ‘Umar said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah has cursed alcohol, the one who drinks it, the one who pours it, the one who sells it, the one who buys it, the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who carries it and the one to whom it is carried

    Tirmidhi - 1295

    The Messenger of Allaah (SAWS) cursed ten with regard to alcohol: the one who squeezes (the grapes etc), the one for whom it is squeezed, the one who drinks it, the one who carries it, the one to whom it is carried, the one who pours it, the one who sells it and consumes its price, the one who buys it and the one for whom it is bought.”
     
  11. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    Post 15
     
  12. agent-x

    agent-x Well-Known Member

  13. Alf

    Alf Active Member

    I have read that selling swine, carrion to a harbi is permissible:

    .... and there is no riba between a muslim and a non muslim citizen of darul harb i.e a harbi( and Abu Yusuf and al shafi opposed this)... and likewise if he sold them carrion or swine or gambled with them and earned money, it is permissible...( and because their money is permissible for the Muslim) and this applies with certainty to (all kinds of ) prohibited money (except that) it is haram for the muslim if it is earned by dishonest means ( if it is not obtained by dishonesty, it is permissible, no matter which way it is obtained), after consent has been obtained [ Fath Al Qadir, Vol 7, book of selling, chapter on interest (riba), pages 37 through 39]

    I have been trying to understand this issue myself. One mufti explained this by saying such sales are allowed only if a person did not buy it himself, for example: if a non muslim gifts a haram thing to a muslim, he is allowed to sell it to other non muslims. I would like to know what other muftis say about it.
     
  14. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    No scholar of the Ahle Sunnat will ever say that the sale of alcohol is allowed. It is totally forbidden. Where did you read it?
     
  15. Umar99

    Umar99 Veteran

    I was interested about this since many Wahhabis use this as a point against us and also the sale of Alcohol and off licence shops which I have read to be allowed in the Hanafi madhab in a non Muslim country, if anyone could shed light in this please? Jazakallah Khair.
     
  16. Haqbahu

    Haqbahu Veteran

  17. YaMustafa

    YaMustafa Well-Known Member

  18. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    سم الله الرحمن الرحيم

     
  19. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    So to take interest from a Non-Muslim is allowed in a Non-Muslim land, but you cannot give interest to Non-Muslim in a Non-Muslim land...?
     
  20. snaqshi

    snaqshi Active Member

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

    Yes bro that was the risalah i was talkign about, might be useful for discussion to upload the whole risalah if its available in pdf
     

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