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Discussion in 'General Topics' started by Aqdas, Sep 30, 2022.
قول بن عباس أصاب معاوية على التقية له أي أصاب في شيء آخر لأنه كان في زمنه
doesn't change anything. it is a furuyi difference. and ibn abbas did not make takfir of those who forsook talbiyah. 'the material witness' did not say that ameer mu'awiyah ordered them to forsake talbiyah. the hadith of anas raDiyallahu anhu still remains that talbiyah and takbir were both done in the presence of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, and the 'material witness' anas raDiyallahu anhu says that they didn't criticise each other. ibn abd al-Barr in his istidhkar mentions that it is a matter of istiHbab not iyjaab.
here it is if you didn't catch it:
as for what you have cited from sharh ma'ani al-aathar of imam taHawi, there is something omitted in the dashes ---
this is again a matter of furuyi ikhtilaf. and this does not invalidate the hadith of bukhari. in fact, this is refuting YOU!
if you read it properly, sayyiduna ibn abbas raDiyallahu `anhuma was answering a person like you who wished to criticise ameer mu'awiyah and to shut him up he said: 'mu'awiyah is right'. if you can read the arabic you will notice the reason given by imam taHawi - that it is impossible that sayyiduna ibn abbas raDiyallahu anhuma would oppose what was established [confirmed] near him as the action of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam. and it is known that ibn abbas raDiyallahu anhuma considered praying 3 witr as sunnah.
the 'taqiyyah' that may have blown you off your seat, actually means, he said this as a defence of mu'awiyah raDiyallahu anhu and said it as tawriyah, meaning mu'awiyah was correct in some other issue. he did this tawriyah to stop that person [who asked him] from criticising mu'awiyah.
otherwise, you refute your own self from the other hadith you picked it from your 'sources' which says: "they abandon the sunnah in the bughz of ali?"
as for the hadith which mentions that ibn abbas raDiyallahu anhuma referred to him as 'donkey', there is another narration that you skipped as it was not for your taste and it says: 'donkey' was not mentioned in that report. anyway, himself being a SaHabi and a prominent one, he could say that - and he might have said that to emphasise his rejection. wAllahu a'alam.
the fact still remains that ibn abbas raDiyallahu anhuma considered ameer mu'awiyah raDiyallahu anhu as a sahabi, he answered to SHUT the mouth of some arrogant person who attempted to criticise a SaHabi in his presence.
in other words nawazuddin, ibn abbas raDiyallahu anhuma was refuting you and asking you to SHUT UP. capiche?
in your blind hatred of the saHabi, you are repeatedly humiliating yourself and parading your ignorance. anyway, let us see what new trick your rafizi friends teach you next.
Answer to gustakhs of Syedna Amir Muawiya (r).
The great Tab`i Saeed ibn Jubayr the material witness at arafaat says that they are not saying because of the fear of muawiya and Ibn Abbas says that they abandoned it for the bughz of Ali.
as for the other opinion of Ibn Abbas, please see below. even that report from bukhari has two different responses for the same event and whats more there two different responses for the same event again in Tahawi's Ma`ani al-aathaar. Below is Imam al-Tahawi's explanation of those:
Imam al-Tahawi al-Hanafi explains the views of Ibn Abbas(ra):
شرح معاني الآثار - الطحاوي
حدثنا محمد بن عبد الله بن ميمون البغدادي قال ثنا الوليد بن مسلم عن الأوزاعي عن عطاء قال قال رجل لابن عباس رضي الله عنهما : هل لك في معاوية أوتر بواحدة وهو يريد أن يعيب معاوية فقال بن عباس أصاب معاوية
قيل له قد روى عن ابن عباس رضي الله عنهما في فعل معاوية هذا ما يدل على إنكاره إياه عليه
وذلك أن أبا غسان مالك بن يحيى الهمداني حدثنا قال ثنا عبد الوهاب عن [بن] عطاء قال أنا عمران بن حدير عن عكرمة أنه قال كنت مع بن عباس عند معاوية نتحدث حتى ذهب هزيع من الليل فقام معاوية فركع ركعة واحدة فقال بن عباس من أين ترى أخذها الحمار
قد يجوز أن يكون قول بن عباس أصاب معاوية على التقية له أي أصاب في شيء آخر لأنه كان في زمنه ولا يجوز عليه عندنا أن يكون ما خالف فعل رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم الذي قد علمه عنه صوابا وقد روى عن بن عباس في الوتر أنه ثلاث
Them being Scared of Ameer Muawiya is not a reflection in any way of the great Sahabi Himself. Note the words "They are scared". There is no mention of He Himself instructing them not say the Talbiyya but an indication of the people present only.
Ibn Abbas did not say (About Ameer Muawiya) He abandons the Sunnah. How can this be when infact the opposite is reported - "I have not seen anyone who prayed like Prophet peace be upon him after Prophet peace be upon him other than Muawiyah" (Haithami)
This is what Ibn Abbas actually thought about Hazrat Ameer Muawiyah - from Bukhari - "HE IS A FAQIH"
Allah knows Best
other than the fact that you blindly follow the rawafid in the bughD of the companion hazrat mu'awiyah, and paste their citations without thinking twice, here are some more explanations.
this is a matter of fiqh; whether one should stop doing talbiyah before reaching arafat or continue until the first ramiy [and stop the talbiyah upon casting the first stone at jamrah al-aqabah]. we hanafis continue talbiyah until the first ramiy, as described in most books of manasik: "stop the talbiyah after casting the first stone at jamrah al-aqabah" [see anwar al-bisharah vide bahar e shari'at 1/1139 dawateislami ed.]
the very same sunan of nasayi [sunan al-sughra or mujtaba] narrates another hadith from sayyiduna anas raDiyallahu anhu that in the time of the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, some would do talbiyah and some would say takbir and nobody criticised one another.
the difference of opinion on this mas'alah is better described by ibn abd al-barr in his al-istidhkar, the highlights of which are:
- some say that the talbiyah can be stopped either before the standing [wuquf] on arafah; or after casting stones at jamarah al-aqabah.
- sayyiduna anas raDiyallahu anhu mentioned that either takbir or talbiyah was said by companions in the company of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam without being a matter of conflict.
- this difference of opinion is an old matter and [now,] none except a man without knowledge will argue about it.
besides ibn abbas raDiyallahu `anhuma did not say: 'they committed kufr' he simply said that they abandoned the sunnah in their hatred of mawla ali raDiyallahu `anhu. AND this was said about the people, does not imply mu`awiyah raDiyallahu `anhu himself. notice that this hadith [which you wanted explanation of] is five hadith after that of hazrat anas raDiyallahu `anhu:
if you really want to follow sayyiduna ibn `abbas raDiyallahu `anhuma, you must heed these hadith of bukhari - said to his slave [who is a tabiyi] and far better than you and all the scholars in our time.
notice, how he replies to an implied criticism of mu`awiyah raDiyallahu anhu: 'leave him. he is a companion of the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam' and in the second: "he is a faqeeh".
Allah ta'ala knows best
Reported by various sources including Sunan of Nasai and graded Sahih even by al-albani. Any explanations?
أخبرنا أحمد بن عثمان بن حكيم الأودي قال حدثنا خالد بن مخلد قال حدثنا علي بن صالح عن ميسرة بن حبيب عن المنهال بن عمرو عن سعيد بن جبير قال : كنت مع بن عباس بعرفات فقال ما لي لا أسمع الناس يلبون قلت يخافون من معاوية فخرج بن عباس من فسطاطه فقال لبيك اللهم لبيك لبيك فإنهم قد تركوا السنة من بغض علي
قال الشيخ الألباني : صحيح الإسناد
Saeed ibn Jubayr said that I was with Ibn Abbas at arafaat and he said to me: why can't I hear people doing Talbiyyah? I said: they are scared of Muawiya. Then ibn Abbas went out and said: ‘I respond to your call, Oh Allah I respond to your call, they abandon the Sunnah for their hatred of Ali.
a warning to those who use the sharpness of their tongues in degrading & insulting the noble sahaba, have you forgotten that your a'maal are presented in the court of sayyiduna Rasul'Allah [sallallahu alayhi wa salam]?
Allah taā'la safeguard us all, ameen.
'jaan āu dil tere qadam par waare, kya naseebe hai tere yaāron kai'
Sayyiduna Ameer Muawiyah [radi'āllahu anh] is 'katib ul-wahi', one who is insults him, or any other sahabi for that matter is undoubtedly a dog from the dogs of hell fire.
al-Dimyati mentions in his sharh on nawawi's arbain that you do not find a copious amount of karamaat from the noble sahaba, not in comparison to latter generations anyway, & one of the reasons for this is because Allah tāa'la granted them the highest levels of istiqaama & istiqaama is greater than karamaat, their level of taqwa was extraordinary, after all they were sahaba. Even if there was not a single athr in praise of this great sahabi, is it not enough for you that he embraced Islam at the noble hands of Rasul'Allah [sallallahu alayhi wā salam] & then passed away on it?
subhan'allah, this is why rawafid don't know fiqh, because the hadith 'when Allah intends good for an individual he grants him understanding in the deen' [yufāqihu fi'l deen] is narrated by none other than ameēr muawiyyah ibn abi sufyan [radi'āllahu anhuma].
as for Abd al-Rahman Ibn Jawzi [rahimāhulla] branding reports in praise of ameer muāwiyyà as fabrications, imam suyúti might have something to say about this in his refutation.
Now let us look at sahih reports:
Mu'awiyah radiyAllahu anhu is a sahabi. Every sahabi is just. There are chapters in books of hadith about his merits. Scholars have written books in his praise.
His group has been called 'Muslim' by RasūlAllāh sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam himself. Imams Hasan and Husayn radiyAllahu amhuma did sulh with him and Imam Hasan handed over rule to him.
Scholars have said, 'whoever curses Mu'awiyah is a dog of hell.'
1) The hadith of Anas bin Malik that the Prophet said, “Oh Mu’awiyah, this is a pen given to you by your Lord.” This hadith has been called a fabrication by Ibnul Jawzi in his Mawdoo’aat 2/250, Al-Thahabi in Al-Siyar 3/129, and Al-Shawkaani in Al-Fawa’id Al-Majmoo’a #403.
2) The hadith of Abdullah bin Omar that the Prophet said that Mu’awiyah will receive ajir every time someone reads Ayatul Kursi because he wrote it. This hadith has been called a fabrication by Ibnul Jawzi in his Mawdoo’aat 2/251.
3) The hadith of Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari that the Prophet said after Mu’awiya wrote down Ayatul Kursi, “May Allah forgive your sins up until the day of judgement O’ Mua’wiyah.” Weakened by Al-Thahabi in Siyar A’alam Al-Nubalaa’ 3/129.
4) The hadith of the Prophet , “Those that are trustworthy are three, me, Jibreel, and Mu’awiyah.” This has been called a fabrication by Al-Nasa’ee, Ibn Hibban in Al-Majrooheen 1/160, Ibn Adi in Al-Kamil 1/315, Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdaadi in Tareekh Baghdad 8/12, Ibnul Jawzi in his Mawdoo’aat 2/253, Al-Thahabi in Al-Siyar and Mizan Al-I’itidal 3/130 – 1/126+503, Ibn Katheer in Al-Bidaya 8/123, and Ibn Hajar in Al-Lisan 1/568.
5) The hadith of Abdullah bin Bisr that the Prophet said, “Mu’awiyah is strong and trustworthy.” This hadith ismursal (weak) according to Ibn Abi Hatim in his Ilal 4/46.
6) The hadith of Jabir bin Abdullah, Ali bin Abi Talib, and Ibn Abbas that Jibreel came to the Prophet and told him to let Mu’awiya write because he is trustworthy. A fabrication according to Ibnul Jawzi in his Mawdoo’aat 2/252+254, and weak according to Ibn Adi in Al-Kamil 2/99, Al-Thahabi in Al-Mizan 3/630, Al-Zayla’ee in Takhreej Al-Kashaf 1/445, Ibn Katheer in Al-Bidaya 8/123, Al-Haythami in Majma’a Al-Zawa’id 9/360, Al-Suyuti in Al-La’ali’I Al-Manoo’a 1/419, and Al-Shawkaani in Al-Fawai’d # 404.
7) The hadith of Anas and Abu Huraira that the Prophet gave Mu’awiyah an arrow and said to him, “Take this arrow until we meet in heaven.” Weak and fabricated by Ibnul Jawzi in Al-Mawdoo’at 2/258, Ibn Adi in Al-Kamil 8/375, Al-Thahabi in Al-Siyar and Al-Mizan 3/130 – 3/332, Ibn Hajar in Al-Lisan 6/297 + 8/377, Al-Shawkaani in Al-Fawa’id #405, and Al-Ma’alami in Al-Anwar Al-Kashifa #209.
8 ) The hadith of Huthaifa bin Al-Yaman in which the Prophet says, “Mu’awiya will appear in cloak of light.”Fabrication by Ibn Hibban, Ibn Al-Qaysaraani, and Al-Thahabi.
9) The hadith of Anas in which the Prophet says that he meets his companions in heaven with the exception of Mu’awiya who he meets after seventy to eighty years. Then Mu’awiya says that he was in a garden under the throne of Allah. A fabrication according to Ibnul Jawzi, Al-Thahabi, Ibn Adi, Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdaadi, Ibn Asaakir, and Al-Shawkani.
10) The hadith of Uthman bin Affan that the Prophet said, “Congratulations O’ Mu’awiyah, you have become trustworthy of the news from the heavens.” Fabricationaccording to Al-Thahabi in Al-Siyar.
11) The hadith of Al-Shadad bin Aws that the Prophet said, “Mua’wiyah is the most generous from my ummah.” A fabrication according to Ibn Asakir, Ibnul Jawzi, and Ibn Hajar.
12) The hadith of Abu Sa’eed Al-Khudari that the Prophet said, “Mu’awiyah rises from the grave on the day of judgement wearing a cloak from sundus…” A fabricationaccording to Al-Thahabi in Al-Siyar. 3/130
13) The hadith of Abdullah bin Omar that the Prophet said, “A man will appear from this door and he will be one of the people of paradise,” then Mu’awiya entered. Afabrication according to Ibn Adi, Al-Thahabi, and Ibn Hajar.
بيان من علماء السنة في الأنبار يرد على أحمد الكبيسي
رد علماء الأنبار على ما قاله احمد الكبيسي في حق الصحابي الجليل معاوية إبن أبي سفيان وقوله
عن اهل الانبار انهم نواصب ولا يهتمون لأل البيت رضوان الله تعالى عنهم أجمعين ....ونسأل الله بأن يجمعنا معهم في الفردوس الأعلى مع النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم
[update jun2018: linked the images in full instead of thumbnails]
a lot of people talk on hearsay and don't even get their facts right.
1. difference about what? the ahl al-sunnah are agreed that in the wars of SaHabah, hazrat e amir (mawla ali raDiyallahu anhu) was in the right - and his judgement is the most appropriate: "aqDakum ali". and hazrat mu'awiyah was not right.
but there is no difference of opinion that he is a SaHabi and he should not be insulted; and that we should not dirty our tongues by criticising SaHabah. this is the madh'hab of ahl al-sunnah scholars. it is only recently, that muntahilin bi'l ilm (claimants of knowledge) have begun attacking hazrat mu'awiyah raDiyallahu `anhu and to justify these choices of their own desires, they dig from books of tarikh and siyar opinions attributed to ulama of yore - some of these opinions could be totally untrue, or if true, there could be ta'wilat suiting the context of what they said, etc.
in any case, 14 centuries down, we ought to keep our mouth shut and not speak ill of SaHabah - FOR THE MERE REASON that they are companions of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.
2. imam abd al-razzaq san'ani was well known that he had shi'yi leanings. yahya ibn mayin asked him: 'all your teachers are trustworthy sunni imams - ma'mar, ibn jurayj, sufyan, awzayi - then where did you take this mad'hab from?' he replied: ja'afar ibn sulayman al-Duba'yi* arrived and i found him to be a good scholar [faDil] and was guided; it took it from him." even though he is trustworthy (thiqah), not every narration of his is accepted. particularly those after he became blind. and particularly those hadith which are cited by shi'ah in support of their madh'hab.
ibn Hajar mentions varying opinions about imam abd al-Razzaq al-San'ani in his tahdhib - and these opinions are those of his own students. in fact he even mentions that some people accused him to be a liar and a thief (that is he plagiarised from others), even though ibn Hajar does not agree with such critics.
abdullah ibn Ahmad (ibn Hanbal) said: "i asked my father, was abd al-Razzaq leaning towards shi'ah and was extreme in his shi'ah beliefs (if he were a shiah)?" he replied: "as for me, i have not heard anything like that from him."
ibn shabib said: i have heard abd al-Razzaq say: "by Allah, my heart could never accept that i should consider ali superior to abu bakr and umar; raHimahumullah. abu bakr, umar and uthman - whoever does not love them is not a believer (mu'min)."
abu'l az'har said: i have heard abd al-Razzaq say: "i consider shaykhayn superior to ali, because he did it himself - and if he did not consider them superior, i would not have [either]. how disgraceful it would be, that i love ali and then oppose his saying!"
he was born in 126 AH and passed away in 211 AH - at the age of 85.
ibn Hibban said that he would make mistakes when he narrated from memory. [#608, 6/310-315]
it should be noted that the hadith of nur from jabir is also reportedly narrated from his muSannaf - which is debated, disputed, accepted among various ulama and that is a different topic altogether. in any case, it does not make him 100% right in everything that he might have said or narrated. his contemporaries - giants among men like imam ahmad, bukhari, yaHya ibn ma'yin and others did not agree with certain opinions leaning toward shi'ah beliefs concerning mu'awiyah raDiyallahu `anhu. despite this - he has himself said: "i never ever considered that sayyiduna ali was superior to abu bakr and umar - raDiyallahu anhu."
*he is a shi'ah muhaddith - yaHya ibn ma'yin considered him trustworthy but still, he said that yaHya ibn qaTTan refused to write his hadith. and other imams have said that it was this ja'afar who introduced some ideas of shi'ah to imam abd al-Razzaq.
the hadith of abd al-razzaq that criticise hazrat mu`awiyah are rejected by muhaddithin. in fact, amir al-mu'minin fi'l hadith, imam abu'l hasan dar quTni said about him that imam abd al-Razzaq would make mistakes in his narrations from ma'mar ibn rashid - in those ones which he narrated from memory. anyway, ulama say that hadith that he narrated after 200 AH (when he lost his sight) are to considered with caution as he confuses things etc when he narrates from memory.
in ibn rajab hanbali's sharh of ilal al-hadith of imam tirimidhi [p.580]:
many [scholars of hadith] have said that abd al-Razzaq reported repudiated [or disreputable] hadith [manakir/munkar] in the superiority of ali and ahl al-bayt; perhaps these are the hadith that he dictated after he became blind, as said by imam ahmad. Allah ta'ala knows best. some of these are reported by weak narrators and it not established that he said them.
nasayi said: "whatever is narrated from abd al-Razzaq from his final years, is pending examination"
earlier imam ahmad is quoted as saying that "he would dictate false [abaaTil] hadith".
as for imam Hasan al-baSri, those who criticise hazrat mu'awiyah, narrate a report found in tarikh tabari that he [Hasan baSri] counted 4 things that are pitfalls/grave errors* [mubiqat] for mu'awiyah: appointing young and foolish men without consultation, despite other saHabah were present, that he appointed as heir his son who was a drunkard, that he claimed ziyad [ibn sumayyah/ibn abih as ziyad ibn abi sufyan], that he had Hujr ibn adi martyred.
now, all these four things - if indeed true - can be explained as errors of ijtihad. even though, in the same tarikh, on the same page, there is a narration in which hazrat mu'awiyah denies killing Hujr ibn adi and his companions raDiyallahu anhum. still this does not mean that hazrat Hasan baSri would revile him. because, in tarikh dimashq, ibn asakir mentions two reports:
hasan basri was told that a group of people say that hazrat muawiyah is in fire. he replied: "may Allah ta'ala damn them - how do they know that they are in fire?"
hasan baSri was told: 'a community insults or curses mu'awiyah and ibn al-zubayr' he replied: "those who curse them, Allah's curse is upon them."
*one may translate that as sins, but given that it is a SaHabi, we use words with caution. Allah ta'ala knows best.
as far as i know he did not take khilafah from hazrat ali "by force".
hazrat imam sayyidu'l as'khiya'a Hasan ibn ali raDiyallahu anhuma abdicated khilafah and made peace with hazrat mu'awiyah in the year 41 AH.
yes, that is what happened with the umawis until sayyiduna umar ibn abd al-aziz came - the umawi period was one of tyranny and bloodshed.
Allah ta'ala knows best.
yes brother i'm aware of the weakness of its attribution to Rasul Allah (sallalho alayhi wa aalihi wasallam) though it is authentically reported as an athar of Mutarrif ibn abdallah, the tab`i in kitab al-zuhd of al-musannaf of ibn abi shayba. No. 36137, etc.
for Padri and his followers it means "staying between Islam and absolute polytheism".
any comments on the the isnad.
given below are excerpts from kashf al-khafa, 1/391 and maqaSid of sakhawi, #455.
People who criticise Syedna Amir Muawiya (radia Allah taala anhu) are dogs from hell according to Sunni Ulama and Aulia Allah