Shaykh Asrar on istighathah

Discussion in 'Bickering' started by Hamza_, Jul 31, 2023.

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  1. Ali_Bash

    Ali_Bash Active Member

    Asalam Alaikum brother,

    What did he say that was deplorable. The context in which he was talking in makes absolute sense to prevent the awaam from doing it as they are known to go overboard especially in the sub-indian continent.

    When the awaam make absolute blunders, the opposition then uses that against out ʿulamā' and say "this is what you barelvis do".
    Uthman likes this.
  2. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    i don’t think anyone is denying the validity of the practice. The argument here is whether it should be stopped for laymen. I think yes.
  3. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Br Aqdas pointed out the work " Khuda ko yaad kar pyare" - I previously quoted and agreed with the quote in the work of Hadrat Shaykh al-Hadith Mawlana Abdul Hakim Sharf Qadri رحمة الله عليه called Nida e Ya RasulAllah ﷺ quoted by Shaykh al-Hadith Hadrat Allamah Ghulam Rasul Saeedi رحمة الله عليه

    Here are the links to both works
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  4. Hanafi Sunni

    Hanafi Sunni Veteran

    Gawth e paak ka karam tabhi hota hai jub Allah ka karam hota hai!
    Even if someone says Gawth e Paak or Khwaja sahab ka karam, there is no harm. There is no limit on calling upon the awliyah. Calling Gawthe paak is remembering Allah as All help ultimately comes from Allah

    This clip of Sh. Asrar was initially posted somewhat 3 years back. Where he openly gave deobandis a good chance to use his clip against sunnis as done recently by the 2 bradford clowns where they posted the same video 5 months back (again) using it against DI.

    This issue was shaykh asrars mistake from the very start. He deleted it, but the deos still keep posting it.

    Then recently the issue of salat e gawthiya ...
    This should be applied to all ulama then.

    Im saying had shaykh asrar not said what he said in that deplorable clip (which he deleted from his channel), which is now being used by our enemies against us, it was case closed.

    Our ulama wrote books to promote good practices among sunnis, but NOT at the expense of other jaaiz muamalat of the ahlus sunnah.
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  5. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    As for what the Wahabiyya say as quoted by Mufti Sahib damat barakatahum, it is that they deny istighatha bil Anbiya wa Awliya altogether and a shubha of that came out of Shaykh Asrar hafizahullahu ta'ala's statement on sadd al-dharai that the laymen should be stopped even though Shah Abd al Haq رحمة الله عليه (as I mentioned earlier) stated in Lamaat ut Tanqih and Ashiat ul Lamaat that some fuqaha did deny istighatha bil Awliya but Shaykh e Muhaqiq رحمة الله عليه did jarh on that statement when he said:

    "I don’t understand the istimdād and imdād that the denouncer is negating. What we understand is that a needy supplicant, in need of Allāh, makes du‘ā to Allāh and asks his need from His Most Exalted grace, and takes the spirituality of this slave brought close and ennobled by Him Most Exalted as an intermediary, saying: “O Allāh, by the blessing of this slave that You have shown mercy to and have ennobled, and the gentleness and honour You have over him, fulfil my need and grant my request, verily You are the Generous Giver.” Or he calls out to this slave brought close and ennobled by Him Most Exalted, saying: “O slave of Allāh, O friend of His, intercede for me and make du‘ā to your Lord and ask Him to give me my request and fulfil my need.” The giver and the one asked and the one hoped in is the Lord Most High and Most Exalted, and the slave in between is nothing but an intermediary. The one with power, agency and control is none but Him, and the friends of Allāh are annihilated in His Most Exalted agency, power and control."

    See here:

  6. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    You are so intent on defending Shaykh Asrar hafizahullah that you have no shame in half-quoting (misquoting) what i wrote. I wrote:

    "Doing istimdad from Allah تعالى alone is a Sunni belief and so istighatha bil Nabi ﷺ and Istighatha bil Awliya رضى الله عنهم"
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
  7. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    deleted my post
  8. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    I thought "this is what the wahabbis say"

    I would appreciate him more if he saw value in what Shaikh Asrar was saying instead of making statements like he does against Shaikh Asrar
  9. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Kindly read my post and what I quoted from 'Allama Saeedi رحمة الله عليه

    Doing istimdad from Allah تعالى alone is a Sunni belief and so istighatha bil Nabi ﷺ and Istighatha bil Awliya رضى الله عنهم

    Also I have never said nor has Mufti Sahib specifically called Shaykh Asrar a non-Sunni. There is a difference between hukm ul-kalam and hukm ul mutakalim.
  10. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    You seem to have no interest in the nafs of the issue. You just dislike Qiblah Mufti Zahid sahib
  11. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    and saying 'Ya Allah' only is not sunni belief? someone not doing istighatha is not sunni belief?

    I don't think this is a misrepresentation of Mufti Zahid at all. At least this time he had the decency to say it openly instead of making surreptitious phone calls.
  12. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    I think youre blatantly misrepresenting Mufti Zahid. Re listen to the clip. He said these are Sunni beliefs. He never specifically said Sh Asrar himself denied the wilayat of Shaykh Abd al Qadir قدس الله سره
  13. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    I don't see any problem with his previous statement and I think he is correct. istighatha bil awliyaa is one of the main reasons a lot of people move away from barelvis. it just causes cognitive dissonance in a lot of people
  14. Abdullah91

    Abdullah91 Active Member

    He never denied tawassul or the wilaya of Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani. So why is it mentioned in the video? Your guess is as good as mine.

    it seems some wont be content until they have convinced the public that Sheikh Asrar is not a Sunni. Yes I know, that is laughable.

    Unfortunately this was probably inevitable. Once Sheikh Asrar had educated himself to a level where he overtook most of his peers and most pirs, he was always going to be a target. How dare he study so hard, travel to Syria, come back to educate the public, encourage them to read, produce teachers like himself, tackle sects, christians, atheists, zionists. Clearly he didn’t get the memo.
  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    When Shaykh Asrar has recently said istighathah with al-Ghawth al-Azam is permitted, then his previous statement(s) will become restricted.
  16. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Just because saying Ya Ghawth is permitted doesn't mean we should call that predominantly. We should call upon Allah ta'ala the most. We have to ensure tawhid is taught properly to Sunnis en masse.

    When some people are asked how they are, they say Ghawth paak ka karam.

    No. I disagree. Say Allah ka karam hai.

    Everyone should read Khuda ko yaad kar pyaare of the Barelwi aalim, Allamah Sharaf Qadiri.

    And if anyone thinks we are not Qadiris or Sunni, we openly state: hadayiq of Alahazrat is our aqidah regarding al-Ghawth al-Azam Sayyiduna Imam Abdul Qadir Jilani رضي الله عنه.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
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  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.


    But Alas, our tanatan folks know only how to do a wird of "tanatan" (modi probably learnt his tanatan thali-banging from us during covid lockdowns) and splash money at notekhwans, and pull the legs of any knowledgeable Sunni who dares stray from the path of tanatan-ness.

    Allah forbid if these same naamlewa's of the Ghawth radi Allahu 3anhu ever read JUST ONE discourse of his from Futuh Al-Ghayb or Fath Al-Rabbani on Badi Giyarwhin Shareef! There's better chances of the sun rising from the west before that!

    MashaAllah brother Shahid Ali has started doing good work against kuffar and clarifying Sunniyat... away from the madding crowd of tanatan-ness, and I pray Mufti Zahid sahib too learns from brother Asrar Rashid hafizahullah.
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  18. Uthman

    Uthman Active Member

    - again this is why a lot of people level objections against Barelvis. We make as if saying 'ya Allah' is a problem and that people SHOULD do istighatha OR ELSE they are wahabbis.

    Why do we make it like it's an absolute thing that we must do instead of presenting this as an option.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
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  19. Abdullah91

    Abdullah91 Active Member

    Couldn’t mufti zahid saab have chosen his words more carefully. “Don’t say ya abdulqadir, say ya Allah. This is what the wahabis say”. He is inviting shirk accusations. Even his tone of voice suggests saying ya Allah is frowned upon and something the wahhabis do. Of course he is not actually saying that. But due to poor word choice and lack of wisdom and awareness of how barelvis are already perceived, he has given the deos (who made the video) the opportunity to clip those words to now cause this fitna.

    sheikh Asrar has done more to teach sunnis and non-sunnis that istigatha is not shirk and is actually from the shariah. Watch his istigatha debate and his lecture proving the hadith of the blind man being sound.

    His approach is better and more conducive to winning over wahhabis who are unsure. Mufti zahid should learn from him.

    And no, I am not a student of Sheikh Asrar and I don’t even know him personally.
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  20. AR Ahmed

    AR Ahmed Veteran

    Shaykh Hamzah al-Bakri has also mentioned this khilaf as mustanad:


    The raajih position and the position of the jumhur on istighatha bil Awliya rahimahumullahu ta'ala is jawaz/istihbab:

    See the usul in Rasm al-Mufti expounded upon by Imam ibn Abidin رحمة الله عليه :

    اعلم بأن الواجب اتباع ما * ترجيحه عن أهله قد علماأو كان ظاهر الواية ولم * يرجّحوا خلاف ذاك فاعلم

    Imam Ibn Abidin Shami رضى الله عنه further states

    الواجب على من أراد أن يعمل لنفسه أو يفتي غيره أن يتبع القول الذي رجحه علماء مذهبه فلا يجوز له العمل أو الإفتاء بالمرجوح إلا في بعض المواضع كما سيأتي في النظم و قد نقلوا الإجماع على ذالك
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