Irfan Shah Mash'hadi in the Tafzili/Rafizi camp

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Aqdas, Aug 26, 2022.

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  1. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

    Syed Muzaffar Hussain Shah Qadri Sahib take of the shackles.
  2. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    People are well aware I was quite a big fan of Sayyid Mash'hadi for a long, long time. But we aren't personality orientated. Just principles.

    Shah sahib has made many blunders recently and for the benefit of Ahl al-Sunnah, he should now debate Ashraf Jalali sahib so that everyone can see the truth.

    But a debate with decorum. No speaking over each other. When it's your interlocutor's turn, you can't say a word. A debate of a few hours will make this issue of khata clear because it is a very simple one.
    uk7866, Umar99, hasan and 3 others like this.
  3. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    Didn't I mention the same a couple of posts earlier? They have no standing on the issue and the runner was expected!
    Ghulam Ali and Sunni Jaag like this.
  4. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

    Mufti Jameel Siddique does a runner from his own Masjid.
    Ghulam Ali and shahnawazgm like this.
  5. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    Mufti Zahid Jalali mentioned he will be visiting Mufti Jameel Siddiqui on Monday to discuss/debate the fatwa.

    However, Shaykh Shahid Imran Jalali said he has given them a date on Tuesday to visit Dr Sahib's centre.

    It seems like Syed Irfan Shah is trying to absolve himself from the issue and put out his mufti, which is not exactly the behavior of a lion.
  6. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

  7. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

  8. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Well-Known Member

    Ibtida e ishq he rota he kya
    Aage aage dekh hota he kya

    Why not go to court and prove it once and for all?

    tehreek ruju ducking and diving

    shahnawazgm and Noori like this.
  9. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    So Irfan Shah is now apparently using Data Ali Hujweri's (ra) book to show that khata is not even possible for Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) so how can it be possible for the Ahle Bayt (ra) !

    In the other video I posted we clearly see that he has no problem for using the word for Bibi Ayesha (ra) or Hazrat Ameer Muawiyah (ra) as "battles" happened due to those "khatas". So based on Irfan Shah's logic is he trying to somehow say that khata is not possible for Imam Abu Hanifa but is possible for Shahaba far greater in rank than Abu Hanifa?

    Anyway again Jalali camp have done their best in teaching him about the topic as he seems to have a habit of quoting books without understanding the contents.....

  10. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    In Ala Hazrat's malfuzat it is quoted from Mawla Ali (ra) that enemies are of three kinds
    1. Your direct ememy
    2. The friend of your enemy
    3. The enemy of your friend

    Using this Ala Hazrat states that similarly there are three kinds of enemies of Allah. He uses this to demonstrate the pitfalls of associating with misled groups of people. So becoming friends from the enemies of Allah (one kind is those who disparage his friends) one actually becomes the enemy of Allah himself!

    We can see this on action on how Irfan Shah just keeps on humiliating himself in trying to appease this misguided tafzili /rafizi "friends". All his latest antics have become a tamasha and ppl are no longer taking him seriously!
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Also, I don't know if any other shuyukh or anyone on the forum addressed it, but that idiotic line Irfan keeps repeating - 'agar khata ijtihadi ho to kaho na' actually goes both ways.

    He could be appeasing his rawafid friends and implying that Sayyidah radi Allahu 3anha is above khata ijtihadi.

    He could also be stating (unwittingly perhaps) the Sunni position that khata ijtihadi is indeed possible for Sayyidah.

    If he really believes in the latter, the Sunni position, then all this arrogance and demagoguery is only for the sake of upholding his comments and "tahqeeq" - for if he acknowledges that khata ijtihadi is possible for Sayyidah and it can be attributed where applicable, then it is only a matter of his "tahqeeq" vs Jalali saab's tahqeeq if indeed it did or did not occur in the Fadak matter.
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Actually, there's very subtle and latent rafziyat in that comment by Irfan.

    If not Irfan in his lifetime, his children or grandchildren are gonna go a step further and recuse themselves from khata ijtihadi and propagate that those battles happened for nafs and politics!

    That's what happens when you make Rawafid your best friends. If you don't become a full on rafidi yourself, your children surely will.

    There's latent rafziyat in it not because of attributing khata ijtihadi to Ummuna 3Aishah radi Allahu 3anha and Ameer Mu3awiyah radi Allahu 3anhu, but because of setting up a distinction between them and Bibi Fatimah radi Allahu 3anha! ├ľnce you set up distinction between Sahaba and Ahle Bayt, it's a very slippery slope into the cesspool of rafziyat.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
    Noori likes this.
  13. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    quite funny, irfan shah has become a comedian perhaps.
  14. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    So as per Irfan Shah we can use the term of khata e ijtihadi in case of Bibi Ayesha (ra) and Hazrat Ameer Muawiyah (ra) as "battles" happened due to it and people "died" whereas we cannot use that term for Bibi Fatima (ra) as no battle happened? I think Irfan Shah now deserves the title of "Mufakkir" (apologies PAQ)!

    Response by Jalali camp below....

    Noori likes this.
  15. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Regardless if the reason is known or not, his silence in the face of Irfan is nothing different than a politician's politics and calculated chess moves.
  16. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    That's one aspect. The larger conclusion from all of this is that it's all a madcap game of sly chess moves, party/votebank politics, and showbiz - with the celebrity shuyukh.

    I wish it could be as simple as saying leave all the celebrity shuyukh and just read Ala Hazrat's Fatawa and works but people need background knowledge for that too, and these celebrities come across to the awam as the thekedars of Sunniyat and Ala Hazrat's methodology. So the awam is caught in a vicious circle of jahl itself and jahil and opportunistic peers/khateebs who feign knowledge. A sad state of affairs, specially when jahil awam is loaded up on naarebazi and nothing more than that.
    Brother Barry likes this.
  17. Brother Barry

    Brother Barry Veteran

    Unfortunately it seems like a case of rishtadari over zimmadari.
  18. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    I agree with this too but it's just a shame they did not clarify/refute Irfan Shah when they were behind the nara.
  19. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I disagree with this. Muzaffar Shah has already had ample opportunities and he himself could have openly rebutted Irfan Shah. But he has chosen to keep quiet for whatever reason (it's obvious why to most).

    It is the responsibility of the ulema to speak out when the shariat is being attacked and they have done the right thing by not waiting for this specific individual. It's the responsibility of an alim to speak the truth at the outset to clarify the position of the shariat, and Muzaffar Shah has unfortunately exposed himself too!
    Sunni Jaag likes this.
  20. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    The only issue I have here is that Jalali's sahib camp or Mufti Fazal Chisti should not have been the ones to respond to Shah Sahib's stance on the nara. This should have been done by the Karachi ulema like Syed Muzaffar Hussain Shah, so that more of the Sunni public are aware of Shah Sahib's attempts to cause more fitna.

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