mufti nizamuddin's Fatwa on Obaidullah Azmi

so they all have heard and he has even repeated most of it on the stage.

He did not quote the excuse of indicting them at all here. He said where else could he find content on Ram and when he had to speak about him, if not in the books of hindus. just as we expect a non-muslim speaker to quote from our books on islam and not those of the Orientalist.

So he has admitted he did not want to offend their sensibilities but rather please them, brown nose in other words.

The issue of t'areef and ta'zeem. See the quotes below. He says Islam teaches manners and so we should always address people with respect.

Anyone still splitting hair over ta'zeem and ta'reef is like the drowning man holding on to twigs.

 

67 to 68: KafiroN ki madat na karon, beemar ho jaae to dekhne na jaao.
Qaun se fuqaha hai tumhare?

Huzoor (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) par ke budhiya kuda pheka karti thi. Ek din nahi pheka to poocha kya hua "subhanAllah subHanAllah" to kaha beemar hai. To kaha chalo madat karenge

68:35 - Ubaidullah ne unke devtaon ki tareef ki.
Kya tareef ki bhai? Unke aqeede ki tareef ki? Unke nazriyaat ki tareef ki?

Jo BAHADUR AADMI HAI BAHAADUR NAHI KAHENGE?

Ramji kyuN kaha, gandhiji kyuN kaha

Inke fatwe ki mutabik ab kisi gaer muslim ka aadar mat karna

ye kahenge Islam to bat-tahzeebi sikhata hai. Toh Islam to battahzeebi nahi sikhaega bhai. Islam to tahzeeb sikhata hai. Islam ne to tahzeeb ki dawat di hai. Islam ne to gaer muslimoN ki madat ki hai

Allah ke rasool (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) ne 500 dinar Hazrate Abu Sufyan, jo iman nahi laae the,ko
madina se bheje kyuNki us waqt makkah me kehet pada tha aur Allah ke bande halak ho rahe the, makkah ke kafir
bhooke mar rahe the (what are the details here?)

Allah ke rasul (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) khade hue, sahaba ne farmaya ye yahudi ka janaza hai Allah ke rasul (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) ne farmaya, insan ka to hai (see: http://tanwir.org/?p=546)

aap kis tarah ke islam ki ta'leem dena chahte haiN?

71:32 - threats of physical violence to his opponents?

 

60:45 - Kuchh saadhu is mulk me rawaNdaari ke eitibar se - Hindu-Muslim SADBHAVNA ke eitibar se achchhe hote hai.
Unhi Achche logon me ek naam hai Murari Bapu.

61:24 - Agar aese log mulk me maujood ho aur unke saath hindu-muslim rawaNdari ko Qaaim karne ke liye koi JOINT MEETING KI JAAE - to ye musalmano ke Haq me hai ke nahi?

61:48 - Morari bapu RAM-KATHA kar rahe haiN aur UNHO NE har mazhab ke logon ko bulaya hai........Agar aap unke Ram-Katha manch par thodi der ke liye boliyega to musalmano ke liye badi siyasi madat ho jaaegi.

62:00 - Aur gaya bhi to bola kya? Agar koi angrez intellectual hamre yahan aae to AngrezoN ne jo Islam ke khilaf baateN likhi hai uske hawale se bolega ya jo Islami muarrikheen ne tareekh likhi hai uske hawale se bolega?

62:45 - Mai jab satge pe gaya aur RAM ke hawale se bolna tha mujhe, mai kiski tarikh ke hawale se bolta? Mujhe jo maujooda malumati tareekh mili hai useeke hawale se bolta.
Woh tareekh kya kehti hai?:

ram bahadur THE
ram samaji nyay ke --- THE
ram ne zulm ke khilaaf JIDD-o-JAHAD kiya, JIHAD kiya
atankwadi tha rawan, us atankwadi ke khilaf ram ne JIHAD kiya

63:25 - Is lafze jihad ko usi stage par sabit karta huN. Ke har daur me buraai ke khilaaf apne apne dhang se jiddo-jahad huwa hai.
Isliye Islam ke jihad ko --- na kiya jaae.

65:33 - Phir uske baad-
Ram naam hai Mohabbat Ka
Ram naam hai takat ka
Ram naam hai insaf ka
Ram ke naam ko manne wale, nafrat ki agar siyasat karenge ...to ram ke PAYGAAM se KHULI HUi ADAWAT HOGI

65:56 - sab kuchch TAFSEEL se bola huN. Aur bhai logon ne kya kiya? jitni baat apne matlab ki thi - UNKO TO MUJHE KAFIR BANANA THA - MUSALMAN BANANE KI TAUFEEQ TO HUI NAHI INKO PUREE DUNYA ME KISIKO.

"hahahaha"

islam ke daai to kaafiron ko musalmaan banate haiN, ye kaise daai haiN jo musalmaano ko kafir banate haiN?

Meko bana diya kafir aur ahsrafiya ke ulamae haqq ne apna fatwa jaari kar diya ke mai kafir nahi alhamdulillah. TOH FIR KAAFIR BANANE WALA MUFTI KYA HOGA?

AlHamdulillah mai galti se bach gaya.

Nabi-e-kareem (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) ne kis tarah taswwure jihad diya tha? Huzoor (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) ke tasawwure jihad se dunya ki har qaum ne bil wasta ya bila wasta fayada uthaya hai.

Gaurav-Pandav ki jang, usme Krishna ne apne nukta e nazar se jihad kiya tha

Mai use islami jiahd nahi kah raha huN (the voice is not clear, I guess this is what he said)

magar bhai logon ne kya kiya?
Ram ko paak kar diya - Ram bhi paak aur Quran bhi paak? ye kehke gumrah kiya jata hai.

Mai kahta huN - Allah bhi paak, Allah ke rasool bhi paak

Alhamdulillah - maine us raat me Islam ke nazariyae jihad ki hujjat qaim karte hue, Allah ke rasul (sallallahu'alayhi wasallam) ne jo insano ki khidmat ka dars hame diay hai use bhi bayan kiya

 

51:20 - It is the responsibility of Ulema-e-Islam to clarify the TRUE concept of jihad to people

51:58 - You need to do TABLIGH to those people who are not muslim and have not recited the shahada

52:33 - TABLIGH of Islam will be done where false gods are being worshipped

54:30 - in the current state of the country - is there not a need to present the correct picture of Islam?
Should such an opportunity not be sought where we can speak OUR TRUTH on the platform of the kuffar?

54:47 - I will explain the background behind this wrong fatwa

55:35 - I will be indebted to those muftis who pin point my errors

55:47 - He names mufti nizamuddin and Allamah muhammad Ahmad misbahi sahab

56:28 - I told them that I am sending the cassete based on which the fatwa of kufr has been given. Listen to it in full, transcribe it, get each and every word written, if there is even a minutest denigration of the shariah, I will not repent behind closed doors but in front of lakhs of public and scholars Ubaidullah Khan Azmi will repent.

57:30 - I am grateful to Allah 'azzawajal that the ulema of asharfiya have PROVED that my speech was harmless and error-free.

57:47 - Alahzrat was CHEATED, a wrong ref was attributed to fatawa ridawiyyah

58:04 - These are 'Iman ke Chor' 'Robbers of Faith'

58:31 - The riots that took place in Gujrat was a result of the MISCONCEPTION OF JIHAD!!

59:39 - People tell "He sits with Hema Malini", "He sits with Jaya Prada", I said, "These are the people who sit there. Whom should I sit with?"
"It is because of sitting with these people that we got the holiday for eid-milad"
"Had I not sat with them we would not have got that Holiday till this day"

NARA-E-TAKBEER !!!

 

24:00 - mulk ki azadi ke liye jihad hua tha

27:00 - chandrashekhar, gandhi, subhashchandra bose did jihad

29:00 - ISI jihad ki ta'leem madarisoN me di jaati hai

36:00 - he makes a snide remark at his opponents that they have taken "wa antum sukara" ayah out of context and got drunk!

36:41 - an ayah is translated wrongly - and someone is shouting subHanAllah!

37:00 - those who have accused him are "be Iman". Doing Zulm-o-Sitam on Quran and hadith.

 

both nizamuddin sahib and misbahi sahib were on the stage.

I have no more husn zann left. I am not even obliged to maintain husn zann now. If something has gone wrong it is beyond the plausible.


Maulana meraj-ul-qadiri and maulana nazim sahib (both from ashrafiya) are among the signatories of the bareilly-shareef fatwa. They did not submit to bullying though they are surrounded by ukhan's supporters. I salute their courage and pray that Allah ta'ala protect them from ubaid's fitnah.

 

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0J80xk2ULUl

Obaidullahs speech, will put things into perspective.



---------------------------------------------
MOD (aH) EDIT: THIS is a new one. not the old 'ram-katha' speech, which can be found here:
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0rxxvS1Nlai
(i edited this post because i had ignored it as, the old ram-katha speech, but after unbeknown's post above, i realised that he is referring to this new one.)

 

What a blunt solution! Will it help bridge building or bridge burning? Ego clash will only shred sunni unity.

I think the best thing to do is to present all and new facts/evidences (videos & audios) which contain Obaidullah's kufriyat to Mufti Nizamuddin. Ask him (and other Ashrafi) scholars to provide definitive ruling on Obaidullah.

(i) If they deem Obaidullah to have committed kufr (in the light of all facts) and ostracize him, then they deserve credit for upholding the law. That will also absolve them of their previous oversight and mistake (may be inadvertent, if they were misled by istiftaa)
(ii) If they dally or excuse themselves from providing fatwa based on new evidence, then the game is clear
(iii) If they again absolve Obaidullah, then they have dug a hole for themselves and have nowhere to hide

Now the million rupee question is - who will bell the cat?

 

this is the audio that brother Aqib Qadiri had posted. I thought it was the same as being discussed here but it's not.

It has more perennialist filth:



Again he asks hindus to promote Ram and Krishna!

-------------------

Concerning a query about a person who said that Vedas are like the Qur’ān and just as Muslims act upon the Qur’ān, the Hindus should act upon their Vedas, Alahazrat writes:

To say that the Qur’an is similar to Vedas is kufr; and to ask others to act upon Vedas is to ask them to commit kufr; asking someone to commit kufr is also an act of kufr. In most books, it is written: “To be pleased with kufr, is kufr”.

 

I meant it is irrelevant whether it is lesser or more work. What is important is that whether they see the need or not.

 

no way.

a signed and sealed fatwa is a proper hujjah. and i don't see any reason they can be reluctant or not feel the need to put it on paper if that's their official position.

we might be living in the age of audio and video technology but tahreer is still tahreer.

Tajush Shari3ah put his stance on tahir on paper too to establish itmame hujjat. (if i remember his words from memory, "taa ke hujjat tamam ho")

 

that is irrelevant. Its up to them, if they see the need maybe they will. i have no idea.

listen from 14:00 onwards, the ashrafiya fatwa is quoted and then refuted saying that it's not ta'weel but taHreef to say that he was presenting proofs from their own books to indict them.

Allah knows best.

 

jazakAllahu khayran.

usually they video record this event. will it be possible for you to get at least the part when the fatwa was announced?

 

then it's even lesser work for Zia ul Mustafa sab to put this on paper and sign and seal it saying obaid's stated reasons and context and circumstances are inadmissible - yes or no?

i didn't hear his speech properly. is this your assumption or did Zia ul Mustafa sab say it explicitly that obaid's stated excuses are inadmissible?

---

btw, my reservations on Nizamuddin sab's fatwa are exactly those - regarding the reasons obaid stated and the purported fiqh technicalities between tareef and tazeem, etc. and you or anyone on this forum is very welcome to present my reservations to any scholar from the Bareilly side.

please just wait till my next post. in fact i think i will shut down the browser and compose it in word so as not to be distracted.

 

Urs e Azeezi

 

whether they release a new fatwa or not, Allamah Zia ul Mustafa sahib has said it on record that the fatwa applies to him now that he has admitted that the speech is indeed his. Note that by this time the ashrafiya fatwa was out already and so his excuses had been taken note of but were not deemed admissible.

Refutation of the ashrafiya fatwa, though its needed, I dread to think how much more the bitterness will increase...

 

this is news to me. what was the event? How did the release of this fatwa take place - I mean was it mentioned that the mustafti has said such things and hence we have given this fatwa? I mean did the public know the background as to why the fatwa was issued?

If it was on stage there must have been nara baazi too, when he was declared "cleared of all charges"?

 

The Saheeh Fatwa was mentioned and released in front of Mufti Nizam and Misbahi Sahib on the stage.

As for these two scholars, I respect your Husn e Zann, and I don't want to say anything further although much could be said.

 

which is general and doesn't mention obaid by name.

please try to understand that we need to compare apples to apples.

we need to contrast SPECIFIC BY NAME fatawa against each other.

we can't contrast one general fatwa mentioning ek shakhs and zayd and bakr against a specific by name fatwa.

obaid's istifta to Nizamuddin sab does NOT imply that the general fatwa given from Bareilly applies to him because of the reasons he stated in the istifta --- 'i wanted to indict hindus, godhra riots, it's a partial quotation, full speech, situation, context and circumstances were ignored' etc. etc. etc. --- that those reasons are lies or not is between obaid and Allah but ANY MUFTI ON EARTH WILL ONLY issue a fatwa based on the istifta presented. don't you see many many many fatawa beginning with "madhkoora bala soorat mein" ... (in the stated situation/circumstances....)???

this is why as far as obaid is concerned, one of the two is required from the ulema of Braeilly if we wish to compare apples to apples -

1 - either a radd of Nizamuddin sahab's fatwa posted in the first post, OR
2 - a specific fatwa on obaid mentioning him by name

sure no worries. you or abu Hasan or anyone else is most welcome to offer your suggestions and i don't have any reservations discussing it with you either.