mufti nizamuddin's Fatwa on Obaidullah Azmi

Discussion in 'Hanafi Fiqh' started by Unbeknown, Feb 13, 2016.

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  1. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    just to shut you up, kid - despite my feisty "one strike and you're out" remark, i tend to look for more than a single gaffe or two by people before i run my mouth on them. i even refrained from keller for a good long while, i think 1-2 years maybe, even after his IKT. i dunno what you know of Nizamuddin as a sulah kulli or a congress agent or a bjp agent or something or if you know more about his track record and he has routinely been 'pulling a tahir'. in my case, afaik, he has a great past record and credibility as a mufti, so i call this a blunder. you don't believe me but if it was Mawlana Akhtar Raza or Zia ul Mustafa sab too in his place, i would have called it a blunder. if i do see a trend of compromise on deen, i assure you, i will say the same things about him (or anyone else). i have no reason to like or dislike this or that side other than deeni issues.

    you can have a last word if you insist on arguing. but i'm not gonna say any more on this topic (unless there's some really spicey new developments in india).
  2. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    what is the Sunni ulema's ruling on singing "vande matram"? (i might have asked this question before on the forum but forget now)
  3. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

  4. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    many thanks for the info.

    just the thing I was saying for so long CLEAR AS DAYLIGHT.

    It's not SOMEONE vs Ashrafiya.

    its some supporters of uka vs EVERYONE ELSE.

    jazakAllahu khayran brother.
  5. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    Obaidullah is a kafir. we dont need Mawlana Shams to explain why he is not.
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  6. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    if it was anyone else apart from Mufti Nizam, it wouldn't only be a blunder but he would be a murtad, zindiq, western agent etc etc
  7. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Noori sab, rather it is you who is tarnishing his image as a moderator. i suggest you read properly and then offer your invaluable comments! i don't have a problem with insults as such, but i do have issues with false allegations.

    let me alert you to what happened:

    post #295 - i state unequivocally that i believe obaid is a murtad and the fatwa by Nizamuddin sahab on him is a blunder, as it is a blunder on the part of all the attesting shuyukh, and that my previous posts should be discarded (which were because i was genuinely in a limbo regarding the interpretation of obaid's words/actions as indictment of hindus).

    post #299 - inquisitive tries to provoke me by saying i ran away only because i didn't sing a qaseeda in praise of the mufti issuing a rebuttal of the Nizamuddin fatwa

    post #300 - i tell him that i'm not running away from anything. there's nothing to comment on the fiqh aspect of it, as i have already said the same thing (just so you don't miss it, i will say again, obaid is murtad in my opinion, Nizamuddin blundered in his fatwa.) - i just added that the politics between the esteemed shuyukh is clearly visible to me at least and i'd rather not comment on it, and that it's a secondary issue!

    post #301 - inquisitive again looks for an argument.

    post #302 - i tell the kid off.

    post #303 - you quote me regarding the same "politics" (earlier post in the thread) that i now say i'd rather not comment on; and offer your gems of wisdom that i'm running on groupie emotions, and that i haven't "wholeheartedly" accepted the comments of a shaykh i trust myself, and that i'm trying to divert the thread, all when i'm trying to not respond to inquisitive's deliberately argumentative posts! it seems like inquisitive, you too are looking for some argumentation just for the sake of it!

    what you should have done as an older brother and moderator, was to tell inquisitive not to argue just for the sake of it but rather post something constructive

    subhan Allah. when i call it a blunder and say they must be informed and told to do ruju3 (#295) and that obaid is murtad based on the opinion i accept from a shaykh i trust - i am a groupie thread diverter!

    i don't know what you're trying to allege! why on earth should i give excuses for a fatwa i agree with wholeheartedly? (a stand alone fragment of a speech praising ram being labeled as kufr, if that's what you're referring to by the first fatwa)

    i don't need to prove my bipartisanship to you mr. Noori, but since this is a discussion forum and we're both adults - my "excuses" for Nizamuddin's fatwa were a genuine confusion on if obaid's stated context can be construed as an indictment of hindus according to their own precepts or if at all his excuse of trying to promote civil order could be deemed acceptable or not. when that confusion was removed, i honestly stated what the shaykh informed me, and statted my stance clearly and unequivocally.

    furthermore, my comments at the "politics" and "game of chess" are aimed at both sides, not just one. hope that abundantly clarifies it to you.

    and i don't know what point of chisti-raza you're referring to. that playground fight thing you quoted was aimed at inquisitive!
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  8. Arshad ul Qadri

    Arshad ul Qadri New Member

    Salaam just for the information, there are two groups right now on Ashrafia.

    Mufti Miraaj, Mufti Nazim Ali, Mufti Shamsul Huda, Mufti Jalaluddin are amongst those who stand against the fatwa in its current form of mufti Nizamuddin. Other Ulama don't have the courage to speak out.

    The Sheikhul Hadith Abdus Shakur regrets that he signed.

    The fatwa of Takfir upon the one who praises Raam of mufti Nizamuddin (markaz tabiyyat Ifta v2) was torn off the wall. Someone made posters and put it on the walls. There is even one student who was excluded from the exams for speaking out against the fatwa which he deemed corrupt.

    There is Igtilaaf upon the Takfir of Uka, but the Ulama are unanimous that his words are kufriyyah and should be condemned. Unlike the mufti Nizamuddin party.

    An advise to all is to refrain from doing Takfir there are a lot of aspects which are unknown for the Awaam, instead try to consult with a Mutakallim such as mufti Shamsul Huda Sahib. He can elucidate very clearly why and when Takfir is possible.

    The biggest problem right now is that the Awaam is taught that the praising of Raam is jaiz if there is a bogus maslihat. This will reproduce Ulama such as tahir ul qadri. A disease for the Ummah.

    From India Mubrakpur Ashrafia.

    Attached Files:

    inquisitive and Unbeknown like this.
  9. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I think we should let AQ and his pet theories of 'starry-eyed murids' following 'chess-playing-pirs' alone.

    we know the correct ruling so lets not give this matter further attention unless something noteworthy comes up. let the parties sort it out among themselves.

    why not bury this hatchet for now?
  10. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    no dear, chisti-raza has raised a valid point, you haven't given any excuse for the signatories of the first fatwa, while for the 2nd you have thrown around all sorts of excuses. it only proves that you have been playing groupie here instead of looking at the matter objectively.
  11. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    dear brother it is mainly you who is only tarnishing his own image because of this groupie emotions. it seems that you haven't accepted the ruling upon uka wholeheartedly, and neither the response from that arab jilani sayed hafizahullahu ta'ala. if you ignore everything and only read sidi Abu hasan's posts then you will not have to beat your brain out. it is you who is not seeing the issue objectively, and (un)intentionally trying to divert the thread into another direction. it is you brother who is trying to portray it as ashrafyah/baraily politics issue. how do you define 'objectively'?

    i was not following this thread after post # 259 on page 3, now is see there are many posts and you are still acting like you are not the same AQ who has been posting against heretics so harshly that even some of our sunni brothers had to complain.

    i believe nobody in this thread who is responding to you would be happy with this situation. we all would love that asharfyah ulama realize their gross mistake, do ru'ju, and you will see us giving them due respect they deserve. let us all pray for the situation to become better for sunnies. kindly leave politics-among-ulama-issue aside and think/talk about the fatwa objectively (yes, i am sarcastic).
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2015
  12. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    look kid, this ain't a school playground. look for a fight somewhere else.
  13. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    After providing numerous reasons why he could be right. Yes, you did. I don't think you would have provided as many reasons or excuses for members of the 'Bareily camp'
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    nope, right here. nothing to comment as far as the fiqh aspect goes. before this "someone replied", i already took the comment of another someone i trust and that is that Mufti Nizamuddin sahab's fatwa is a blunder.

    no i would have said that they have blundered, just as i said for Nizamuddin sahab.


    i'm just refraining from commenting on the political and the real life game of chess aspects of it that are clearly visible to anyone whose eyes are not star studded. and those are peripheral and secondary issues in any case. the larger issue is safeguarding the Ahlus Sunnah awam of the subcontinent.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  15. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    Is it just me or has AQ ran away now that someone replied to Mufti Nizamuddin

    I dread to think what AQ would be saying if the 'Sahih Fatwa' was released by someone other than the Mubarakpur scholars. Infactc I believe if the Fatwa was written by scholars from the bareilly scholars then AQ would have had no problem in labelling them all Kuffar as soon as the Fatwa was released.
  16. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    haven't read the fatwa yet, but for convenience, i first strung it into a PDF for my own use.
    here it is posted (without any comments).

    Attached Files:

  17. inquisitive

    inquisitive Well-Known Member

    very well written
  18. ghulam-e-raza

    ghulam-e-raza Well-Known Member


    Attached Files:

    Aqib alQadri likes this.
  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    i have also posted this on the other thread (AQ feedback)

  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    no worries. makes two of us.

    as per your request, i will draft an Urdu istifta around the evidences provided to me (consolidated in one post) whenever someone does it.

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