Tahir Jhangvi in India

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Mar 24, 2012.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it seems that it is you who is ignoring what you don't like. i have said that those who accuse mawlana ilyas qadri of kufr should provide proof. and you gave those videos; if you want our comment on that, the case made against mawlana by some people is ridiculous.

    but you are generalising this. as if only ulama of bareilly are criticising tahir; or that we accept every word from the ulama of bareilly without any thought.

    as for tahir's kufriyat, i have mentioned the reasons in MFM and further more from his books. this is not kufr by ta'wil - but explicit kufr.

    and only Allah ta'ala knows best.
  2. khadim.awliya

    khadim.awliya Banned

    whatever happened to looking for excuses ? state of intoxication of sufis ? Has anyone approached Dr. Tahir al Qadri with what has been posted on this forum and has anyone given him a chance to explain or elaborate himself or admit his mistake ? This is very important. Haven't our scholars given excuses for Imams like Hussain Mansur al-Hallaj, Bayazid Bistami, Abul Khair, Hamadani, The teacher of Rumi Shams e tabriz, Rumi ... why have they given excuses for them when the sword of shariah could have been applied the same way done on Dr Tahir ?

    Imam Suyuti in his defence of Takfir done by scholars on Shaykh al-Akbar's apparent kufric statements says:
    "Third, this may have come from them in a state of intoxication and distraction, and the lawfully intoxicated person is not taken to task as he is not held responsible in such a state. Holding a bad opinion about them after all these resolutions is a sign of deprivement of success. We seek refuge in Allah from failure and a terrible verdict, and from all evils" Al-Suyuti, Tanbih al-Ghabi (p. 59-60)
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    all i have seen so far are clean lifts from books of earlier ulama without acknowledgement trying to pass it off as his own achievement. firstly, it is useless (because every successive generation is dependent on previous ulama) and secondly, it is trying to grab glory. one should understand that it is given by Allah ta'ala - and He gives it to whom He pleases.

    any bibliophile will tell you that prolific authors develop a signature style over a period of time. thus, if you have read shakespeare or dickens, poe or joyce, you will immediately recognise their style. so is the case with authors in any science or language. but read jhangvi's books and notice that the style is considerably varied. as if it is not the same author, but different people with varying levels of skills and expertise. it is difficult to believe that tahir has written these books; some or all of them do not belong to him.

    our issue with tahir is not that he is a plagiarist. (at least that is not the main issue, though we will mention this to counter his followers whining: 'he has written so many books...') it is his life and choice - he is answerable for his deeds.

    the problem is that he is propagating dangerous aqayid. i don't think you have ever read an intermediate fiqh book in your life; or else, what explains this ignorance of basic principles?

    tahir swearing on the shoes of the prophet (sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam) alongside the Glory of Allah ta'ala? calling a person's staff as 'staff of Musa'? comparing his own ordeal with that of the Prophet Yusuf `alayhi's salam? or calling christians and jews believers? or accusing the Prophet sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam of 'permitting christians to pray according to their own tradition'? isn't it shameful, that you take umbrage for what you perceive as 'attack' on tahir, but your mind is dead to the fact that tahir accuses the Effacer of Falsehood sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam of permitting polytheism?

    if tahir was consistent with sunni aqidah, we would close our eyes to his bragging or his claim of authorship. but the issue is that he has wild ideas and because of his ignorance, he is damaging the aqidah of foolish people who follow him. his actions of celebrating birthdays, hobnobbing with politicians etc., allowing music-dance and so forth are all dangerous precedents. he is actively trying to damage ahlu's sunnah, but fools are carrying him as a saviour.

    look in the translation below; where alahazrat conservatively stops at tafwiD (without elaboration) tahir goes all verbose suggesting tajsim and other such maladies.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    when you don't have an answer.

    but you have ilm-e-ghaib here to know the reason why tahir included it?
  5. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    you're really behaving like a troll harun (regardless of whatever your leanings are)
  6. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I don't have Ilm e Ghayb.So I don't want to comment on this question
  7. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    of course, sunni ulama quote even deobandis to say: 'look even your ulama say this.' there is no harm in it.

    but here, it is not the case. there is no argument, nor is he trying to prove a point by quoting the opponent. he is simply giving evidence as an authority. anybody who can read (which excludes you) can easily see my point.

    are you saying that tahir does not respect devbandis? or that he quotes only as proof from 'even their sources'?
  8. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    TuQ is quoting Deobandis to prove a tafzili belief - not a sunni one which is hardly the same as showing up Deobandi inconsistencies.


    Its not personal at all especially when most haven't met him. Its based on his action and his written work and his bizzare claims based on dreams to prove his point
  9. khadim.awliya

    khadim.awliya Banned

    some brothers are getting carried away and making it personal issue when it comes to Dr. Tahir ul Qadri

    Dr. Tahir ul Qadri made some mistakes in the name of Dawah. But he has some good works which one can benefit as well. Allah has ordered us to be fair and just.

    Always there is the other side of the story. To pass a judgement , a judge has to hear both sides furnishing evidence. Hearsay, youtubes, so-and-so said, this is not the way to pass a judgement on anyone.

    Brother HarunI has shown that there exist problems with other scholars of Ahlus Sunnah and has raised a valid point, why no fatwa or books are written on those scholars ? Why only one scholar: Dr. Tahir is targetted unless it is a personal issue ?

    Today Ahlus Sunnah is bleeding with rifts amongst one other. Where is the rahmah ??
  10. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member


    Very interesting. For what its worth; though the scholar (who i will not name) did not inform me but a very close person to this senior scholar told me that minhajis asked for permission to reprint the scholars work on hadith with exactly the same intention - pass it off as an orignal work!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2012
  11. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    Ahlus Sunnah scholars like Allama Shafi Okadvi(REhmatullahi Alaih) quoted Ashraf Ali Thanwi's Nasheer Ut Teeb to prove Noor BAshar.
    He also used to quote Fazail e Aamal of Tablighi Jamat to prove Tawassul...

    The reason behind this was that present day Deobandis don't accept these Aqaid.
  12. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    What a martyr - or more likely a drama queen!!
  13. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    tahir citing ismayil dihlawi as evidence, not as refutation.

    p.9 of the book awaiting imam.

    Attached Files:

  14. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    playing the martyr, when you ran out of answers.

    who asked you to endorse any book? and where?

    'dedicated' to you? you are as insignificant to us as your master - the lying jhangvi.

    the reason why we are not banning you is proof that we don't consider you worth a nickel.

    but you are talking to sunnis here. and it is you who has not replies.

  15. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    the comparison between alahazrat's kanz and irfan-e-tahiri is implicating. a plagiarist has lifted the translation of a master and then has the audacity to claim the original is flawed. is there any end to his shamelessness?

    i saw a book yesterday which was a translation of imam suyuti's husn al-maqsid and imam ali qari's al-mawrid al-rawi. it was translated by mufti abdul qayyum hazarwi and i was dumbfounded when i saw the name of tahir on the cover and his name as the musannif! so, the original work is by suyuti and ali qari - translated by abdul qayyum hazarwi - but is says: tasneef : prof. dr. tahir ul qadri.

    it seems that tahir and his followers have chosen to follow one hadith all their lives:

    fa idha lam tastaHi faSna'a maa shiyt / if you have no shame, do whatever you want.
  16. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I can see a whole thread dedicated to bashing me and threating to ban me..its fine...
    many Wahabi forums have banned me when they ran out of replies...

    I am used to this..

    Mods of this forum can ban me right away for the crime of not endorsing a book they have written...I am perfectly ok with that...

    But its intresting to see how the bashing post conviniently skips the point raised about the Ulema whom I had mentioned....
  17. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

  18. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

  19. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

  20. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    but mawlana ilyas has always been considered as a sunni and anybody who accuses him - al-iyadhu billah - of not being a sunni or blasphemy should provide proof.
    The Fatwa of Blasphemy has been issued alongwith proofs by Ulema from BAreilly.
    Here you go:

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