Tahir Jhangvi in India

Discussion in 'General Topics' started by abu Hasan, Mar 24, 2012.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    your example is like that of a naked man, standing on the street, arguing whether the knee is included in the awrah or not.

    it is obvious that you are frantically trying to clutch at straws. you say - and look at the emphasis.
    whereas, it is also this:
    Allah is the arabic word for God, for Brahma, for Lord, for the creator....
    word specified for your Lord...

    and also this:
    you can raise any word specified for your Lord according to your own religion. so let us remember our Lord, according to our own traditions and religions.

    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  2. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    to harun:

    lakum deenukum wa liya deen.

    in fact, if you did not make excuses for the explicit kufriyat and kept silent, perhaps you would have escaped the ruling too. ok. wait for a mufti to tell you: laa ilaaha illa Allah.
  3. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    it is not special thing for muslims. Allah is the arabic word for God, for Brahma, for Lord, for the creator...you know. you can raise any word specified for your Lord according to your own religion.

    It is about ANYTHING those kuffar consider as god, creator in THEIR own religion and tradition.

    Declaring someone Kaffir is the last resort when there is not even an iota of doubt and Kufr of person becomes as bright as Sunshine.

    I am not sure about the TuQ statement's exact meaning and whether they mean whatever people have understood them to be..

    The statements that he uttered can be interpreted in either ways as he is explaining the meaning of Allah as Creator in his earlier sentence.
    Allah is the arabic word for God, for Brahma, for Lord, for the creator....
    word specified for your Lord....
    I will wait for the well known Ulema to speak on this and issue a clear decree.
    Till that I prefer not to arrive at any conclusion.
  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    it is difficult to argue with fanboys, who would like to measure the shariah according to tahir's actions, not the other way...but i will try.

    firstly, ta'wil is not accepted in explicit kufriyat. for example, if a man calls himself a nabiy and says, "what i meant was: naba' means news. one who gives news is a nabiy. i am a newscaster and therefore i called myself a nabiy." is not accepted.

    books of fiqh and usul are rich with such illustrations. these are excuses used by munafiqun who manipulate words to escape the ruling and continue to peddle their filth.

    which is not totally rejected. as long as the name is linguistic description for The Creator or ilaah, it is fine.

    but certainly, you cannot call The Creator as ahura-mazda or ganesa, or shiva or rama or krishna. in addition to your enthusiasm for ta'wil-at-any-cost-to-exonerate-tahir, you also need some basic education in fiqh/aqidah islami, to present a case. when tahir studied under imam a'azam for 9 years, he should have asked him what imam a'azam says about the asma'a of Allah ta'ala.

    question: suppose a man does zab'H and says bi ismi parameshwar, is it Halal to eat it?

    what then is the meaning of the following verses:



    here you need to make the following distinction

    1. to call The Creator by a descriptive name in any language. that is a muslim who recognises that there is Only One Creator and says God or ishwar meaning Creator AS MENTIONED BY ISLAM. (as explained by akmal)

    2. to say that anything kuffar call as god is the same One Creator worshipped by Muslims; they just call it ganesa or siva; buddha or jesus, 'according to their own tradition' but it is actually the One Creator. (al-iyadhu billah)

    we have already considered that excuse. please understand that until i had seen these videos, i used to consider him as a gumrah (for his fancy interpretations) but within sunni fold. in spite of the propaganda against me, i do not find glee in doing takfir.

    what tahir said was this:
    of course, people love to make ta'wils for those whom they follow. it is obvious here that tahir trying to convince kuffar that when we say Allah, don't panic; it won't hurt your religion, it is just the name for God.

    he is NOT saying that - there is no other God but Allah and everything that you worship thinking that it is god, is not true. what has not been pointed out so far, is that tahir cleverly does not say 'laa ilaaha illa Allah' rather just chants the name of Allah. are you that naive that you cannot see that he is trying to not offend those kuffar? (after all they are his guests).

    every muslim child knows that unless they say: 'laa ilaaha illa Allah' they don't become muslims.

    here tahir is clearly saying - anything you say god according to your own religion. this is not about a Muslim calling Allah sub'Hanahu wa ta'ala The Creator in a different language; it is about ANYTHING those kuffar consider as god, creator in THEIR own religion and tradition.

    sub'HanAllah! has islamic knowledge fallen to such depths that people require elaborate treatises to explain 'laa ilaaha illa Allah.'? what about the verse:


    two slightly differing meanings of tahir's statements.

    1. Allah is the same that you call as god. (this is addressing kuffar among whom buddhist, sikh, christians and hindus are present; dunno why jews and magians were not invited, or if they were, we didn't catch them.).

    2. Whatever you call is the same as i call Allah; it is not anything different. Brahma, Lord or whatever you call is the same as i call Allah.

    it does not matter what tahir thinks that buddha or brahma is; it is what buddhists or hindus consider buddha and brahma.

    al-iyadhu billah, wa la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah. laa ilaaha illa Allah waHdahu laa sharika lahu. laa ilaaha illa'llahu Muhammadu'r RasulAllah. SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.

    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  5. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I know that people might differ with me on the following.
    Each language has a specific term for Supreme Creator.
    Like English has GOD,
    Sanskrit has Parmeshwar.
    Persian has word 'Khuda' which is very commonly used in Subcontinent,though its not present in Quran or Hadith.

    These terms don't signify any idol but refer to Creator of Universe who is ONLY ONE.

    Mufti Akmal Qadri has also said that its ok to use these terms if they mean ONE Creator in their respective languages.


    If Dr.TuQ was referring to calling that One creator in diiferent languages then I would rather give him benefit of doubt.

    Though i would personally never do such a thing.

    Allah and His Prophet(Peace be upon him) know best.
  6. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    we have already considered that cop-out somewhere else.

    but what about encouraging people of other religions to call on their own gods?
  7. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

    I have repeatedly been saying that limitation of English Language causes us to use terms which might mean something else in other language...

    All our current Ahle Sunnah Scholars have Ijma (consensus) on the following.
    (1) The word "believer" can be used in many shades of meanings. Like all 73 sects of Muslims are believers in Quran, Ahadith and they also recite Kalima Tayyiba. But, we all know as per Sahih Ahadith, out of them 72 are not 'real believers'. Only one Group is real believers; therefore, they are real Muslims. The others are not real Muslims. Meaning, they are Kafirs, therefore, they will be thrown in Hell Fire permanently. There is no salvation for them.

    (2) Similarly, the earlier people, whose prophets were provided with books are known as Ahle Kitab. The current Christians and Jews are Ahle Kitab in the general sense as they believe in their Prophets and scriptures. However, as they have changed their beliefs (after the deaths of their Prophets), like our 72 sects have changed their beliefs after Prophet Mohammad (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam), they are not "real believers". Meaning, they have gone astray because of their kufriya beliefs. In other words they are kafirs and will be treated as such in Hereafter.

    (3) The entire Ahle Sunnah have ijma on the above interpretation. Every scholar believes that there is only one Group in Muslims who are real Muslims. Similarly, the current Christians and Jews (or believers or Ahle Kitab) have gone astray because of their wrongful beliefs. Therefore, they are not real Ahle Kitab. They are Kafirs and they will be thrown into Hell fire in Hereafter.

    Be it Dr.TuQ or Taajush Sharia Mufti Akhter Radha Khan or Shaykh Ilyas Attari or anyone else in Ahle Sunnah , all are united on these interpretations.
  8. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    yes, but also watch the other speeches where he has said things that are kufr. you don't know the ruling of apostacy perhaps.

    any word or deed classified as kufr is uttered or done by a person by his own free will and not under duress makes that person an apostate. even if he does not believe in it himself. for example, if someone says that ganesha is a true god or folds hands in front of an idol of ganesha (in respect) or wears a crucifix - even as a joke becomes a kafir.
  9. HarunI

    HarunI Banned

  10. Abdul Mustafa 786

    Abdul Mustafa 786 Active Member

    Questions posed to "Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr. Tahirul Qadri" and Minhaj-ul-Qur'an

    Please see the section: 'ULAMA OF OKARA POSE QUESTIONS TO PROF. TAHIRUL QADRI on pg.s 27-33 of the 1st attachment: "A Refutation of Tahirul Padri's Beliefs by Jamaat-e-Raza-e-Mustafa".

    Please also see the "Foreword" section in the 2nd attachment: "Fatwa by Shaikhul Hadith - A Refutation of Tahirul Qadri and A Plea from the Quran to those who accept it (and respect it)".
  11. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    this is hilarious, i'm the last guy to critique fus'ha urdu or perform a detailed analysis on Ala Hazrat's works (or an analysis on the analysis of Ala Hazrat's works), but this really got to me:


    mahol ki tas'kheer - translated to - "conquest of environment" (pg 5)

    ahkam ahl adh-dhimmah has been translated to "Islamic private international law" (pg 33) - seriously, does he even have a clue on politics and basic legal and fiqhi definitions?! who said this guy was a law graduate? i don't even have the nafsanic satisfaction of calling him a shrewd n corrupt lawyer in a duniyawi duniya-parast sense! he's robbed us of that nafsanic pleasure too, the scumbucket! ironically, he hasn't heeded one word of what Ala Hazrat said on tark-e-mawalat, that he so praises!


    didn't have patience to go through this, but towards the end tahir or his boys pretty much give the same mark hanson style spin and beamingly display his/their jahil mutlaq status:

  12. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

  13. The Emir

    The Emir Well-Known Member

    Has Harun has just declared the person who he has been defending a kafir based on the above video?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2012
  14. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    God dammit! I typed that link shown in the tahiri video aH posted (www.interfaithrelations.com)

    and here's all the proof harun and khadim.awliyaa need. seriously guys, visit that site and if you have an iota of iman, or shame or ghayrah, you will puke!

    i don't know if the forum policy allows posting pics of living things, but i've taken some screen shots and attached them here

    see and weep:

    a "milad" under the sign of the cross:


    is ke bad aur kuch bacha hai kya? look at the shameless dayyuthoon calling themselves "Muslims" holding up the bloody cross!


    is this "Sunnat" too? ehteram of all cock and bull falsehood?!

  15. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i urge you to listen to the full speech. he brazenly attributes things to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam which is untrue. only a person who has sold his soul to the devil can dare to make such statements.

    secondly, the pact of madinah was in the early days after migration which the jews broke. i have mentioned it in some detail in MFM (minhaji fata morgana).

    don't be surprised if he makes wine permissible for you citing the many hadith about the companions who would drink prior to prohibition.

    the jahil has no idea of what jizyah is or what shariat is and what are the reasons for jizyah. can anybody point me which of his 400+ books talks on jizyah so we can see what other nuggets the prophessor has to offer?
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  16. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    the title says: "Every Non-Muslim is not Non-Believer : Clarity amidst Confusion"

    gotta give it to his propaganda machine for calling the pitch dark night as sunshine!
  17. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    Look at this thread, and look at the date. It was started by me. Do you still think it's a personal grudge?

    I've said it before on this forum too and reiterate: IT WAS ONLY AFTER LISTENING TO TuQ I STARTED HAVING SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT MY OPINION OF ALAHADHRAT. I was THAT sort of a sheeple. And I know MANY who are in the same boat as me.

    I've seen them shake their heads in disbelief at first and then sadness. We feel betrayed. Its over.
  18. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_RSJgrzGHI

    look how blatantly he distorts the tafsir of the ayat and reduces the da'wah of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam to a mere political association.

    la Hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.

    even an illiterate muslim, a hundred years ago would have dismissed it as nonsense.
  19. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    why should we bother about tahir? he should worry about his iman himself.

    we are worried about the iman of sheeple like yourself and we are warning you not to follow him. if an ordinary roadside jahil like harun does not accept his mistake, do you expect a man with a bloated head like tahir will?

    one of my friends wanted to give him MFM, but the security is so huge that it is not possible for common people like us to approach a celebrity like tahir.

    moreover, why do you people think that tahir is the center of the universe? he is a fraud, and like other heretics, he will die and be forgotten; fresh water will wash the filth away. you may find him indispensable, but for me, he is of little value.

    obviously, you don't know the rule of amr bi'l ma'aruf. if i meet tahir, or have an opportunity to meet him, in sha Allah, i will talk to him - but we live where tahir cannot enter. and i do not have the means to go where he lives. secondly, ulama have been demanding munazarah and tahir is evading it. if he is so much on truth, why does he not agree to a munazarah? given the clout he has - money and powerful people on his side - what does he have to fear?

    tahir knows about it - and that is why he was livid in the hyderabad speech making bazari claims that: 'if i am not sunni, no mother has given birth to any sunni.'

    in the past, ulama like imam bukhari were tested on their knowledge of hadith; scholars like imam ayni and imam qasTalani were accused of plagiarism by contemporary scholars - but they responded. imam abdu'l ghani nablusi was accused of plagiarism about a poem and in response he wrote a sharH on that proving his abilities.

    we are doing what we can. we have a platform to talk and we are saying that tahir is wrong and these are the proofs. instead of answers disproving our evidence, all we get is some red herring or the other.

    wa billahi't tawfiq.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  20. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    even when he conducts elaborate press conferences to prove his actions as 'sunnah'?

    in the state of wajd, he tells kafirs: 'call your own gods'?

    in the state of wajd, he says: 'we will take melodies from the bible, rythm from whatever-polytheist-book, etc.'

    in the state of wajd, he conducts a press conference to lecture that "not all non-muslims are non-believers"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_RSJgrzGHI

    in the state of wajd, he writes books that have kufriyat in them? and they are published in the state of wajd?

    whatever happened to common sense and ghayrat of muslims?
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012

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