Irfan Shah Mash'hadi in the Tafzili/Rafizi camp

Discussion in 'Aqidah/Kalam' started by Sunni Jaag, Mar 6, 2021.

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  1. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    i doubt that is the case. there are many other contenders. chaman zaman's idiotic ramblings - in spite of his name dropping - and irfan shah's nuggets of wisdom in his interview with taslim sabri, which was compounded by his mureed nabeel who dutifully follows his peer in a deep pit and in free fall...

    difficult to choose one.

    ----

    let us go back to basics. irfan shah and his minions to answer this question - if they have the courage.

    istiftaa:

    can the kashf of a waliy be a basis for shara'yi rulings? what about aqidah? especially when it contradicts* the well-known and widely acknowledged aqidah of ahl al-sunnah.

    ----
    *when the RULING or opinion contradicts - not the kashf per se. in case some moron misreads this to be 'attacking' sayyidi data sahib. huzur ka kashf sahih thaa. aap ki raay bhi museeb. magar samajhane walon ka dimagh ulta chal raha hai].
     
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  2. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    amazing. this can be billed as the blunder-of-the-year.
     
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  3. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    imam a'azam himself can say that khaTa is mumkin for prophets. and it is in a book of aqidah and deemed established belief. [see fiqh al-akbar].

    but one of imam a'azam's followers saw him in a dream and due to the circumstances 'hopes' that imam a'azam's ijtihad is correct in matters of shariah; and his reasoning is that he saw RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam carrying him instead of imam a'azam himself walking. so, he 'hopes' that his ijtihad is accurate.

    what does irfan shah tell the sheeple? [i don't know whether he mentioned in that speech that it was on the basis of a dream]

    "data sahib did not admit khaTa for imam a'zam - and he was such a great waliy. you are claiming khaTa is possible for sayyidah."​

    sub'HanAllah - kya manTiq hai!

    ====
     
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  4. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    firstly, a dream mentioned in the book of tasawwuf by huzur data sahib who himself classes it as a 'sublime indication' is touted as a principle of aqidah!

    secondly, irfan shah ignored the taq'yid without batting an eyelid.

    the 'protection' accorded to imam abu hanifah in this dream / interpretation is in the context of his ijtihad. not absolute 'sinless' or 'free from error'.

    besides, these are adaptations of the translators (and they might not have expected someone would misuse them to prove a rafizi aqidah!)

    ----
    questions for irfan shah or his students:

    1. is a dream basis for forming an aqidah?

    2. is an inference drawn on account of a dream a basis of aqidah?

    3. data sahib is a very great waliy. no doubt. but is HE ma'Sum? can his dream or interpretation or opinion (based on his kashf/dream) be considered a basis for shara'yi ruling and aqidah statement?

    4. can a metaphorical description from a book of tasawwuf taken in isolation and used to contest established aqidah found in books?

    5. "in this matter, he has not erred" can this be extrapolated to mean: ma'Sum?

    ----
    perhaps irfan shah and his minions have never heard of the statement that this "ummah is ma'sumah". then they will run away proclaiming that irfan shah or his big brother are all ma'Sum!

    saqama'l Hirsi laysa lahu dawa'u
    wa daa' al-jahli laysa lahu tabibu

    ----
    oh btw. i ask irfan shah to prove that data sahib claimed ma'Sum anil khaTa as in absolute terms. here is the original farsi from a 1874 edition:

    kashf farsi p62.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
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  5. abu Hasan

    abu Hasan Administrator

    irfan shah's argument is borne of ignorance...unless he has gone crazy.

    ----
    khayr. irfan shah says quoting data sahib in kashf al-maHjub. this is the madness that can be seen in street-side coffee-shop muftis, and facebook mujtahids. the kind of wisdom auto-rickshaw and truck drivers display on their vehicles. they pick up a stray statement from a book or a talk and make it as a proof of their own aqidah.

    my sincere advice to all those crooning wah-wahs: a laysa minkum rajulun rasheed?

    i tried transcribing his rambling, but i couldn't make out some words. i request someone to post the transcript.

    ----
    irfan shah cites from kashf al-mahjub, which i am reproducing from the book:

    data sahib mentioned a dream in his kashf al-mahjub: [i am using the same urdu translation extolled by irfan shah; that of shaykh abu'l hasanat, p217]

    once i [i.e. hazrat ali ibn uthman jallabi raHmatullahi alayh] was in syria and sleeping near the grave of hazrat bilal raDi'Allahu anhu, the muezzin of RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam.. [in my dream] i saw that i was in makkah and in the same dream i saw RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam entering from bab shaybah and he was carrying an old man in his arms as if he were a small child.

    i ran up to him in ecstasy and i kissed his blessed feet.

    i was wondering who could this venerable old man be?

    our master SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam knew about my amazement by the light of his prophethood and he said: "this is your imam, and imam of your people". that is imam abu hanifah.

    after this dream, i have a strong hope [and the people of my city are also hopeful].

    and upon this dream, my supposition was also validated that imam abu hanifah is among those pure souls who have the attribute of annihilation [faani] in the context of their natures [i.e. their own selves], and are preserved and remain steadfast in the context of Shariah rulings [baqi o qa'im].

    this is because, he [imam abu hanifah] was not walking himself but he was being taken by the master on the day of Judgement SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam [sayyid e yawmu'n nushur].

    if he [abu hanifah] would be walking himself, his attributes would have remained [baaqi us sifat]; and one whose own attributes remain will either be in error [i.e. he intends to be in the right, but an error occurs unwittingly] or is in the right [i.e. one who has arrived at the right conclusions].

    and when he is being led* by our master SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam himself, he has the attribute of annihilation [faani us sifat] and the attribute of the prophet remains [qa'im] as one of perpetuation [baqa].

    this is why it is impossible for the prophet to commit a mistake [sudur e khaTa].

    and he who is sustained by the Prophet's self [dhat], he too cannot commit a mistake.

    indeed, this is a very sublime secret.

    ----

    now irfan shah's argument is thus:

    because of the dream - and the conclusion of data sahib raHimahullah - it is inferred that even imam abu hanifah cannot commit an error of ijtihad, let alone absolute khata.

    thereby, it is implied that attribution of khata to sayyidah faTimah is wrong according to data sahib.

    and in passing he makes a swipe on jalali sahib that he is a student of the devil because he is not retracting [ruju']


    ------
    i do not know if irfan shah was always this ignorant or his hobnobbing with neem-rawafiz took away all the ilm?


    the translation of shaykh abu'l Hasanat sahib:

    kashf p217.png


    the translation of shaykh mu'yinuddin sahib:

    kashf ver2.png


    we will continue, in sha'Allah.
     
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  6. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    I started listening from 32:30 minutes onwards and got seriously bored with Irfan Shah's lunacy and laffazi. If he keeps up with such bizarre extrapolations of verses, he might as well leave tahir and paqs behind. He's really overdoing it.

    He thinks his megalomania and boisterous style will cover up for all his lack of substance!

    Sorry but discussing this noveau riche pseudo tafzili bunch any further is like adults discussing tom & jerry.
     
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  7. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

  8. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    I don't know why farooq razvi sab contented himself with placing the onus on the reciters head alone.

    in fact there is no difference between a reciter and the awaam (lay public) - they are all equally ignorant ( illa Masha Allah) - one group is melodious in its ignorance and the other is ignorant of the waah-waah type.

    the real onus is on the head of all those who claim to be "scholars" - and were standing there with folded hands merrily listening to the hymns from shia mythology.
     
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  9. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    To be fair the abuse has been coming from both sides. This is where the ulema need to set the standard, and only discuss issues of contention in public if it is in their interest and keep those clarifications/stances academic.
    I recall listening to one Shah sahib when he was confronted by some Jalali Sahib supporters and he was saying that this was an academic discussion and the layperson should not get involved. Then a couple of days later he is sitting in a conference where Syed Irfan Shah continues his anti-Jalali sahib stance albeit without the swearing, just reasons why he is a cursed individual. Again, it is that one way traffic that really grates me. At least stick to your own principles.
     
  10. Ghulam Ali

    Ghulam Ali Active Member

    unfortunately this has been seen Frequently throughout from followers from swearing at Ulama to calling nasibi etc and thereby throwing people out of sunnism willy nilly.
     
  11. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    Some of their abuse is shocking, not content with his Pir calling Jalali sahib 'Walad ul Haraam', a reportedly close mureed of Shah Sahib changed the title of a pro Jalali sahib conference from Labaik Islam Conference to Walad ul Haraam Conference (Astagfirullah)
     
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  12. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

    I don't think he'll bother after Allama Shahid Ali's refutation :p
     
  13. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    @Sunni Jaag No need to worry Shaykh Nabeel was there in the background. He will explain this and simultaneously will charge the likes of Allama Farooque Rizvi with hidden Nasb.
     
  14. Sunni Jaag

    Sunni Jaag Active Member

  15. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

  16. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    What Hanif Qureshi is referring to is a video from Shah Sahib that Shah sahib claims was doctored.
     
  17. Unbeknown

    Unbeknown Senior Moderator

    didn't understand the Punjabi - but did he really say those things that hanif queryshi quoted him as saying: "munh bhar bhar ke gaaliyan"?
     
  18. Waqar786

    Waqar786 Veteran

    @AbdalQadir this is an old video when they were fueding.
    @Noori: He has accepted Syed Irfan Shah's defence that 'swearing at gustakhs' is not swearing because if you call it swearing then you have to say Allah most High and Holy Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) swear too. I know this because in a video I recall watching, Hanif Qureshi defends the words of Syed Irfan Shah against Jalali Sahib, and only disagreed with the 'andaaz'. No principles what so ever
     
  19. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    hanif qureshi should answer too, how come now bay adabai of Allah Taala and Nabi Akram alihi salaatu wat-tasleem is acceptable that in every program of irfan shah you seem to be ecstatic.
     
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  20. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    Is that a recent video, or something from the past feud between Irfan Shah and Hanif?

    If it's recent, in this case I support Hanif, not because I like him (astaghfirullah), but because Irfan Shah was so callous and drunk up on takabbur to befriend a mustaqbil ka Tahirul, a beghayrat and a lota like Hanif qureshi. Serves him right!

    It's like I don't blame modi or Mohan bhagavad for their shenanigans, but rather the so called representatives of the ummah. It's not just devs like mehmood madani, there's quite a few bhajpai chamchas who claim to be flag bearers of maslake Ala Hazrat too.
     

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