Yasir Qadhi and Asrar Rashid - Aqida

Discussion in 'Multimedia' started by Hassan_0123, Feb 6, 2024.

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  1. Hassan_0123

    Hassan_0123 HhhhhhhM_786

    Why can't we take Allama Abdul Hakeem Sharaf Qadri's stance on istigatha?
    'It is clear from what has preceded that seeking help from the Prophets and the Awliya, with the permission of Allah, isn't shirk or kufr like what the innovators of our time claim. It is clear that the actual helper and the fulfiller of needs is Allah. It is better to not ask from anyone EXCEPT from Allah and seek Waseela with the Prophets and the Awliya".

    Attached Files:

  2. Akmal Khan

    Akmal Khan New Member

    JazakAllah Khair Brother.
  3. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    The concept of seeking help (istighatha) through intermediaries (tawassul) can be categorized into two types:

    1. Seeking help from beings other than Allah, believing they possess divine abilities, which constitutes shirk (associating partners with Allah).

    2. Seeking divine help from Allah through one's own actions, Allah's attributes, or the elevated status of righteous individuals, which is generally permissible.

    Regarding the latter, seeking divine help through the status of righteous individuals can take three forms:
    i. Mentioning their elevated status while asking Allah for help.
    ii. Explicitly asking the righteous individuals to intercede on one's behalf with Allah.
    iii. Implicitly seeking their intercession, understanding that they will appeal to Allah on one's behalf.

    In a historical first, Ibn Taymiyyah argued that all forms of seeking intercession through the status of deceased righteous individuals are Haram, fearing they could lead to shirk.

    However, Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab, with an unconventional interpretation of tawhid, deemed the second and third forms of seeking intercession through deceased righteous individuals as outright shirk.

    While the majority of scholars (jamhur) agree on the permissibility of istighatha and tawassul, a minority may consider istighatha to be haram but not shirk, indicating a fiqhi disagreement. However, the Wahhabi school views it as shirk, contrary to the consensus of the scholarly community.

    Akmal Khan likes this.
  4. Akmal Khan

    Akmal Khan New Member

    Acha ok I take my words back, Can you please tell me about one more issue that wheather making dua to Awliya permissible, like raising hands and asking from that grave instead from Allah( without using Ya Allah,iss wali ke wasile se mujhe...)I apologise if it is sounding rude but I really want to know
  5. Aurangzeb

    Aurangzeb New Member

  6. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    No it isn't kufr. It is haram in this ummat but was permissible in the earlier ones like for example the case of Hazrat Yusuf Alaihissalam.

    It will be better for you to refrain from blanket takfir like the wahabis do.
    Akmal Khan likes this.
  7. Akmal Khan

    Akmal Khan New Member

    I said if kufria things is happening then they are happening in some places not all. And Isn't someone prostating at dargah has committed kufr?
  8. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    I can agree to jahalat but kufr is a strong term to use against a Muslim. Grave worshipping implies the person worships someone other than Allah TaAllah which is incorrect. A sajda at a grave does not imply that the person worships the Wali Allah but on the contrary is jahalat and a sin.

    You need to get the distinction correct first. There is no need to play along with the tune of the deobandis and wahabis.
    Ghulam Ali likes this.
  9. Akmal Khan

    Akmal Khan New Member

    To be very honest sir he is not wrong,there is so much of nuisance happening in many dargahs and kufria things are happening ,I have seen that in India at least. Kids are not taught about aqida(atleast basics) in madarsas,I have heard about some madras associated with Jamat Razai Mustafai who byheart hadis (which atleast don't make sense to me).90 percent of Muslims don't know what are mazhabs(schools) and which are they following and they easily get brain washed by deos and wahabdis by showing example of some dargah.Madarsas should have curriculum as such like in school.
  10. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    The key is the way he phrases it, like the statement "at least I am not"! It implies that plenty are "grave worshippers". The problem is that in order to appeal to others when you try and compromise, such as this scenario of meeting somewhere on the middle. Many former well versed people have fallen victim to such things and the worse case being them leaving the Ahle Sunnat altogether.

    Spending his time more with "Bareilvis" would be better than trying to compromise with the Ahlul bidah.
  11. Aurangzeb

    Aurangzeb New Member

    It would appear that the post event majlis wasn't only discussing gaza then. I imagine, watching Sh Asrars content over the years that he is appealing to deo/wahabi laity when saying we are not grave worshippers etc as this is often the propaganda used against sunnis especially nowadays on social media.

    Its a risky strategy, sure commoners amongst deo/wahabis background people have started watching Sh Asrars content (hopefully the series of Aqida too) but how many common sunni background peoples watch MH, Hamza, Haitham etc, probably quite a few.

    I think in the social media age, Sh Asrar is trying to influence the influencers towards correct Sunni beliefs as forbidding our own peoples doesn't work. Sunnis watch everything from Salafi tik tokers to Liberal Imams to figures like Andrew Tate. I can see Sh Nur ud Deen was also at this gathering.
  12. shahnawazgm

    shahnawazgm Veteran

    At 2:30 min, I came away from this that according to Shaykh Asrar we have "Quboori" people as well in our ummah doing shirk and he made it clear he is not one of them.

    I think he has played more into the arms of the Wahhabis here by tacitly acknowledging "grave worshipping" goes on in the Indian subcontinent.

    He should have been firmer in stating that this ummah does not do shirk!
  13. Noori

    Noori Senior Moderator

    should shaykh asrar not have called this out and said the differences are not minor, we disagree on major issues? will a common person/follower not take it as tacit approval?
    Aqdas likes this.
  14. Khanah

    Khanah Veteran

    1. Anyone doubting that Hijab etc are deviants hasn't watched enough of his videos. It's very clear that he is one of the new salafi breed that dislikes ibn Abdul Wahhab but thinks ibn taymiyyah is a mujaddid despite his clear cut deviant views. For example, he acknowledges that at least at some point in Ibn Taymiyyah's life, he believed hellfire is not eternal. Maybe shaykh asrar should seek clarification from Hijab as to whether this would have made tajdeed imaan necessary upon ibn taymiyyah and whether Hijab believes he repented from such clear cut kufr, in order for him to now go around calling him as shaykh ul Islam. Dilly himself is clear cut sulh kulli, if not outside of sunni Islam from the get go. Watch his video where he's sucking up to omar Suleiman recently. Haitham is another standard wahabbi who was justifying Hamza Yousaf (leader of the Scottish national Party) after his kufr comments re homosexuality (read his article on islam2c or whatever it's called).

    2. I'm not saying shaykh asrar is sulh kulli based on this conference at all. I'm just saying... How does anyone benefit from holding a conference where the people watching already agree with everything you're saying? Like, if you're going to share a stage with these clowns, shouldn't the actual outcome of what you're doing be tangible? Is it OK to join these types of conferences when they're is absolutely no benefit? I wouldn't have an issue with him being at this conference if I thought it would actually do something. All that's happened is that it's raised awareness about the plight of Palestinians amongst... People who already know about the plight of Palestinians?
    Aqdas likes this.
  15. Mohammed Nawaz

    Mohammed Nawaz Corrections are always welcomed with appreciation

    I'm just trying to figure out how Mufti Shahid Saheb's protests against propaganda Rafidi film with deos are any different from this.
  16. Sunni By Nature

    Sunni By Nature Active Member

    Historic meeting in Damascus:

    - Shaykh Ahmed Yassin - founder of Hamas
    - Shaykh Sayyid Nazim al-Haqqani al-Qubrusi - leader of the Naqshbandi Tariqah
    - Shaykh Ahmed Kuftaro - The Grand Mufti of Syria
    - Shaykh Sayyid Hisham al-Kabbani - founder of the islamic supreme council of America
    - Shaykh Ahmed Amir - world renowned Egyptian Qari

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
  17. AbdalQadir

    AbdalQadir time to move along! will check pm's.

    ok i can't speak for the UK,

    but we both know in india, let alone against pakistan, if someone expressed joy at australia thrashing india today on facebook, they'll get arrested even over a cricket match! it has actually happened. people have been arrested at expressing joy over india losing a cricket match! post-911, in india too Barelvis/Sufis were seen as non-extremist, but that episode was over in 2014 in india.

    in north america too, the state machinery eyes everyone Muslim equally, regardless of your sect or if you mince your words and say zionist instead of jews or palestine instead of hamas. we know altering syntax and semantics don't mean anything on their side and they know it doesn't mean anything on our side, even if you make nuanced statements that not all jews are zionists and some are on our side, or if you say all of Palestine, Arabs, and Muslims are not hamas. it's just legal cosmetics for the most part, on both sides. all Muslims are equally suspect of anything and the feds eye everyone the same. you're a "good" Muslim to them only if you've been seen taking a bottle home for the night or if you eat bacon n eggs for breakfast!

    regardless of this event or who he shares the stage with, i'd be very shocked and surprised if they didn't keep tabs on Asrar Rashid already

    as for Dilly and 5pillars, i don't know uk again, but outside he's just seen as an ummah centric journo and a news org, so it's expected he will accommodate all sects, like he did in that talk, and will also ask for funding. same story with Muslim skeptic. given that he organized this talk and called all those people, i'm guessing his aqidah would be that of one of the speakers or maybe all of the speakers, but given the invited speakers i doubt he'll be some sort of a feminist or lgbt kinda guy, but that's just me seeing as an outsider.

    i also don't know if he's like that rafidi and zionist shill mehdi hassan whose rifd & support for zionists came out of the closet only after garnering some support from the ummah! i doubt Dilly is the same, but that's just me at this point in time.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023
  18. Aqdas

    Aqdas Staff Member

    Who called Shaykh Asrar a sulh kulli?
  19. Hassan_0123

    Hassan_0123 HhhhhhhM_786

    Recent picture. I guess Mufti Muneeb Ur Rahman is a sulla kulli too? We have to be consistent. If Sh Asrar is, so is Mufti Muneeb Ur Rahman. So is Allama Noorani. So is Shahid Ali and Mufti Aslam Bandyalwi. I think we need to cancel a lot of Ulema tbh
  20. sherkhan

    sherkhan Veteran

    I have a different take on this. I'm totally against sulh kullism (like many others here), but at the same time don't believe that Shaykh Asrar (SA) is backsliding into sulh kullism or being completely out-of-way attending these mixed gatherings. I didn't squeak so much when SA went on air with Shadee against YQ; since he was only putting forth his views (without dilution) and representing ahl us-sunnah.

    This 5pillar gathering was a joke. Each of the speakers already have been holding forth their views on Palestine on their respective well-followed channels. So what did the gathering achieve? Coming together of minds and showing the unity within the community? All the speakers did was, preached to the choir.

    And what did Shaykh Asrar gain? At the end of gathering, all he did was endorse 5pillar and ask everyone to support it monetarily. That lends credibility to the platform which hosts deviants.

    If Shaykh Asrar dallies with Dilly, then it may cause weaker/lesser followers to dilly-dally on usuli matters!


    My other concern with such meetings is giving stage to Hizb ut-Tahrir's Abdul Wahid. Shaykh Asrar shouldn't be seen in the same frame with HuT. For good or bad, HuT is a proscribed organisation and gives the community a bad name in the UK. It's no-brainer that every one who associates with HuT will be put under surveillance and profiled. Even Dilly got a visit from police the other day!

    Not that we should care about the racially biased govt machinery; but why should Shaykh Asrar put his own well-earned reputation (and that of his "sufi"/barelwi school) in line for appearance at inconsequential 5pillar meeting? Last thing that he would like (not that he would care) is to be "wrongly" labelled as terror-sympathiser. Besides bad optics, he will face unnecessary harassment (and visits) at the hand of authorities (which have nothing better to do).


    Doesn't Shaykh Asrar know that Hamas is a designated terrorist organisation in the UK (well, I too give two-hoots to such designation!)? Any public call to the ummah for creating/pooling zakat fund to help Palestine will be perversely (and deliberately) misconstrued by the govt as a call to support terror funding. A number of UK charity got shuttered for this very reason.

    By all means, we need to be courageous in face of perennially Islamophobic, genocide-supporting govt; but we need to be smart. I'm a big believer in "saanp bhi marey, lathi bhi na tutey".

    Wouldn't you rather send your zakat for Palestinian cause without being noticed? It means, you can do so continuously (and beneficiaries can receive without hitch). If you go public or be open about remittances, then I doubt you will be able to do so for long.


    That's why I think, it's better for Muslims in the UK to march behind Palestinian Solidarity Campaign and other such non-Muslim bodies, rather than make the mass protests a Muslim-only event. Firstly, that will alienate non-Muslim supporters of Palestinian cause. Secondly, it will make it easy for the govt to delegitimise such campaign as a sectarian, partisan one without broad, mass following. To be smart is better than just being brave and fire-brand!

    Discretion is the better part of valour!
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2023

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